Thread:	House meanings
From:	harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)	Date:	Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:32:23 +0100

Try "The Twelve Houses" by Howard Sasportas - one of the best books on
houses,I've ever read for the psychological perpsective. Lilly (CA), of
course, for the horary/traditional. You might try subscribing to the
Traditional Astrology edited by Deborah Houlding which ran an excellent
series on house meanings a few months back. Look for "astrology world" on
the net.

Pat.

>Does anyone have some good definitions of the 12 houses?
>
>thanks
>
>Sunregulus
>
>

Thread:	Update astrological mailinglists etc
From:	tees.reitsma@astronet.idn.nl (Tees Reitsma)	Date:	02 Oct 97 19:18:38 +0200

Please feel free to copy and publish this information!
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Thread:	Job interview
From:	s.fensalir@juno.com (Sue Jorgenson)	Date:	Wed, 1 Oct 1997 20:10:29 -0700

Dear Pat:

Thanks much for the correction; shows you what a newbie I am! ;-) The
end result is that I did not get the position. *sigh* Looking at Mars
(which was conjuncting my natal Saturn), there is not much action except
in the 6th house ruled by Aries. T Saturn is retrograde there. But that
comment about the Moon - ! The Moon, at 9 Leo, in the 9th house - ruled
by Cancer, is conjunct the MC at 12 Leo, and they oppose Uranus at 4
Aquarius and Jupiter at 12 Aquarius. This is compounded by a T-square of
the Ascendant at 7 Scorpio and Venus at 16 Scorpio. All of that certainly
wouldn't augur well for getting the job, would it? Again, thanks for the
pointer.


Sue

Sue Fensalir
Fensalir Astrology
s.fensalir@juno.com



On Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:45:08 +0100 harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)
writes:
>Dear Sue,
>
>In traditional astrology (a la Lilly) the outer planets are not given
>rulerships of the houses so your Ascendant Lord would be Mars and you
>would
>need to look at that in relation to your 10th ruler, also the Moon as
>your
>co-ruler in the matter.
>
>Regards,
>
>Pat.
>
>>Hi, all:
>>
>>I had a job interview this morning, and what makes it rather
>interesting
>>is that it took place on my birthday, less than a half-hour after my
>>birth time. So the Sun is in the same position in the horary chart
>and
>>my natal chart; the Ascendant is the same, albeit with five degrees'
>>difference. In any case, what happens when the Lord of the Ascendant
>-
>>Pluto - is in the First House?
>>
>>Venus follows at 16 Scorpio, Mars at 28 Scorpio and Pluto at 3
>>Sagittarius; all are in the 1st house. The sixth contains Saturn at
>17
>>Aries retrograde, quincunx Venus, and Venus/Ascendant form squares to
>>Uranus, Jupiter, Moon and MC. Pluto is nicely sextile the Sun.
>>
>>Interview: 9:30 a.m. PDT, Costa Mesa California (33N38 117W55); it
>>concluded at 10:05 a.m.
>>
>>(My natal data is 9-26-56, 9:06 a.m. PDT, Burbank California - use
>Los
>>Angeles coordinates)
>>
>>Thank you very much!
>>
>>Sue
>>
>>Sue Fensalir
>>Fensalir Astrology
>>s.fensalir@juno.com
>>
>>
>
>

Thread:	Earthquake data
From:	spica@world.net (Anne Elliott)	Date:	Wed, 1 Oct 1997 17:43:17 +1000 (EST)

Dear Members
Those looking at earthquake data may like to look at

http://gldss7.cr.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/bulletin.html

which is a "near-real-time Earthquake Bulletin provided by the National
Earthquake Information Service (NEIS) of the U. S. Geological Survey as part of
a cooperative project of the Council of the National Seismic System."
It gives the latest earthquakes, maybe 20 a day, with their longitude,
latitude, depth and strength.

Regards
Anne Elliott
Anne Elliott
------------------------------------------------
Spica Publications for out of print books and mail order astrology books
Subscriptions to The Southern Astrologer, The Traditonal Astrologer, The
Horary Practitioner, The Mountain Astrologer, Astrologer's Quarterly,
Astrologer's Apprentice and Lois Rodden's Data News.
Publisher & Distributor for Robert Zoller's Tools & Techniques of the
Medieval Astrologer etc.
Phone 61 (07) 3273 7344 Fax 61 (07) 3273 5485 Freecall in Australia 1800 626 402
------------------------------------------------

Thread:	Kidney Donation question
From:	aries <aries@freenet.macatawa.org>	Date:	Tue, 30 Sep 1997 17:23:23 -0400

Hello All,

I have been a lurker on the list for some time hoping to learn more
about horary. It is a slow going process for me and I have a very
serious question to ask, one that I definitely don't have the expertise
to answer for myself. Please help.

My sister needs a kidney/pancreas transplant. She and I are the only
two siblings with matching blood types, and the pancreas graft needs to
come from a relative. No other matching relatives (cousins, etc.) have
come forward.

The problem is, I have had a diagnosis of Lyme disease. Lyme disease is
very controversial, some doctors do not believe it exists, some do.
Some believe treatment cures it, some think it lasts forever. Some of
my lab work showed positive results, some did not. I was treated for it
intensely and long term. No new symptoms have emerged, but the old
arthritis-type ones have returned. Other than achiness, I have
maintained good health.

My questions are:

Did I ever really have Lyme Disease? And, Do I still have it?
Will I be allowed to donate to my sister?
Will she be "cured" of her diabetes and kidney failure by my donation?
Will the pancreas graft "take"?
Will she contract Lyme disease from my donation?

My dob is: 4/1/53 12:13am EST Zeeland, Mi USA
Sister's dob is: 8/20/61 approx 4:30am EDT Holland, Mi USA
The Transplant Center is located at the University of Minnesota USA.
Her initial work-up is scheduled for October 20, 97

Thank You very much,
aries@macatawa.org

Thread:	Italian earthquake
From:	"Barbara" <arque@ioda.telnet.com.br>	Date:	Tue, 30 Sep 1997 11:14:52 +3:00

Hi
very thanks for the data.
The chart for Asissi - not the centre of earthquake - shows
Moon opo Uranus in the asc-ds axis and Saturn in the cusp
of 10th
any more comments?

thanks
barbara
>
> According to the New York Times (Reuters) report of Friday, 9 26 97,
> the 5.5 Richter quake struck 9 26 97, 2:33 AM, and was centered near
> Foligno, in the Umbria region, about 65 miles from Rome.
> Regards, DKR
>
>

Thread:	Italian earthquake
From:	"Diana K. Rosenberg" <ye-stars@ix.netcom.com>	Date:	Tue, 30 Sep 1997 00:04:45 -0400

Barbara wrote:

> Hi
> Somebody knows the data about italian earthquake that
> destroyed Assisi church - where Francesco d'Asissi built
> his church - 170 km from Rome?
>
> very thanks
> Barbara

According to the New York Times (Reuters) report of Friday, 9 26 97,
the 5.5 Richter quake struck 9 26 97, 2:33 AM, and was centered near
Foligno, in the Umbria region, about 65 miles from Rome.
Regards, DKR

Thread:	Italian earthquake
From:	"Barbara" <arque@ioda.telnet.com.br>	Date:	Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:45:45 +3:00

Hi
Somebody knows the data about italian earthquake that
destroyed Assisi church - where Francesco d'Asissi built
his church - 170 km from Rome?

very thanks
Barbara

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	jon <jonn@dircon.co.uk>	Date:	Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:04:35

At 11:44 27/09/97 -0400, JoAnne Schmitz wrote:
>At 02:38 PM 9/22/97 -0400, iclea something wrote:
>>Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>>
>>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>>depth of her professionalism,

what I find so offensive is this dreadful person using which instead of
who. Can somebody get her certified, if that's what she wants?

Jon
Jon

Thread:	Atomic Clock
From:	Manon Richard <carmen@dds.nl>	Date:	Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:38:04 +-200

<<I found the following page for setting the computer clock to the atomic clock
for excellent accuracy. You just click on the icon that says atomic clock.>>

Besides, there are many small programs available which log on to an atomic clock any time you log on to the internet and correct the time of your computer. For example http://www.wimsey.com/locutus for Socket Watch. I have found this procedure to be very accurate.
(I have no financial interest in this company)

Manon
carmen@dds.nl

Thread:	Atomic Clock Time
From:	Paula & John <jhl3@zebra.net>	Date:	Sun, 28 Sep 1997 11:04:19 -0500

There's another neat little piece of shareware called Atom Time that does
the same thing; you can find it at:

http://www.wavefront.com/~badelsman/Software

It's very small, doesn't mess with system files, and is easy to use.
What's nice about this, too, is that you don't have to visit a website to
calibrate your clock. Just get on the Internet, click a button, and Atom
Time gets the correct time and resets your clock.

John

At 09:31 PM 9/27/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I found the following page for setting the computer clock to the atomic clock
>for excellent accuracy. You just click on the icon that says atomic clock.
> Go to:
>
>http://morpheus.hartford.edu/cs/student/kaloisi/utils/clock/
>
>Tony
>


=============================================
"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the
argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

William Pitt
-----------------
PGP Public key available upon request
=============================================

Thread:	Job interview
From:	harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)	Date:	Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:45:08 +0100

Dear Sue,

In traditional astrology (a la Lilly) the outer planets are not given
rulerships of the houses so your Ascendant Lord would be Mars and you would
need to look at that in relation to your 10th ruler, also the Moon as your
co-ruler in the matter.

Regards,

Pat.

>Hi, all:
>
>I had a job interview this morning, and what makes it rather interesting
>is that it took place on my birthday, less than a half-hour after my
>birth time. So the Sun is in the same position in the horary chart and
>my natal chart; the Ascendant is the same, albeit with five degrees'
>difference. In any case, what happens when the Lord of the Ascendant -
>Pluto - is in the First House?
>
>Venus follows at 16 Scorpio, Mars at 28 Scorpio and Pluto at 3
>Sagittarius; all are in the 1st house. The sixth contains Saturn at 17
>Aries retrograde, quincunx Venus, and Venus/Ascendant form squares to
>Uranus, Jupiter, Moon and MC. Pluto is nicely sextile the Sun.
>
>Interview: 9:30 a.m. PDT, Costa Mesa California (33N38 117W55); it
>concluded at 10:05 a.m.
>
>(My natal data is 9-26-56, 9:06 a.m. PDT, Burbank California - use Los
>Angeles coordinates)
>
>Thank you very much!
>
>Sue
>
>Sue Fensalir
>Fensalir Astrology
>s.fensalir@juno.com
>
>

Thread:	Atomic Clock Time
From:	TonyLouis@aol.com	Date:	Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:31:44 -0400 (EDT)

I found the following page for setting the computer clock to the atomic clock
for excellent accuracy. You just click on the icon that says atomic clock.
Go to:

http://morpheus.hartford.edu/cs/student/kaloisi/utils/clock/

Tony

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	JoAnne Schmitz <jschmitz@qis.net>	Date:	Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:44:15 -0400 (EDT)

At 02:38 PM 9/22/97 -0400, iclea something wrote:
>Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>
>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?

Not the knowledge, but the time and energy spent in sharing them, is what
most spiritual people I know ask to be paid for. They don't charge extra
for extra-good revelations or insight.

Do you expect people who have a spiritual path to give up eating and paying
the rent? Maybe farmers should not be paid, for food is too important to us
to make us pay for it. We should get it for free.

Let's carry it further. Professionally, I am a computer programmer and
analyst. You could say that what I do is spiritually and specifically
ordained by God or Christ or whatever deity you believe in, because I firmly
believe that the kind of work I do was designed for me to do. Should I then
do it for nothing? How about the people who make "getting it free online"
possible, should you never have to pay for online service or a computer or
software because you are using it to get wisdom?

This is indeed the prophet without honor in his own country.

>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.

You show no respect for Carol and the work she has done. If there is
someone who is able to set this knowledge free without price for his or her
time and effort, let him or her step forward now and serve all mankind
without asking. Are you such? Then start your own list and have your own
revelatory party.

Do you think the wisdom of the ages will be thwarted by someone cutting off
the flow at $50 per hour? Wisdom is everywhere.

>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.

I hope the price you have to pay is not too high.

-JoAnne

Thread:	Querent as Seller
From:	astrology@aurumtel.com	Date:	Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:50:25 -0400

I am fairly new to horary, so this comment may be off the wall, but maybe you
should look at the aspects between the rulers of the 7th (buyer in this case)
and the 4th (property of the seller). Also at the aspects between the moon (as
querent) and the 7th (or did you try that already?).

On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)
wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>Many thanks for those of you who have put finger to keyboard on this one.
>
>My query is not about the resolution of the question by the coming together
>of the first and seventh significators. That one I can accept.
>
>I'm more concerned about the specific case of selling a house where there is
>no perfection between first and seventh so we look to the significators of
>the first and fourth.
>
>If the querent is selling then it is the coming together of the querent and
>his property (fourth) which doesn't chime for me since the property is
>leaving him.
>
>The same would apply with the significators of the first and second in the
>case of portable property or the first and sixth if the question were "Will
>my employee leave my company?"
>
>Hope that makes the specific query clearer - I'm still open for business on
>this one.
>
>Thanks again for your input.
>
>All the best,
>Jonathon
>Visit the Tree of Life website at:
>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife
>
>
>
>
Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum
---------------------------
- Duxbury, Massachusetts -
- astrology@aurumtel.com -
---------------------------

Thread:	Marv Albert Trial
From:	s.fensalir@juno.com (Sue Jorgenson)	Date:	Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:00:31 -0700

From: s.fensalir
To: jonn@mailhost.dircon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:12:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Marv Albert Trial
Message-ID: <19970926.204356.12846.0.s.fensalir@juno.com>


On Fri, 26 Sep 97 05:49:33 GMT jonn@mailhost.dircon.co.uk writes:
>Marv Albert - who he?
>--
>Jon
>
Hi, Jon:

I've done my best NOT to follow the trial but the media has a way of
getting it across. He's a sportscaster who stands accused by a woman of
forcible sodomy and other assaults including lots of biting, which is how
he likes sex. She, I believe, sicced the cops, etc. on him. The DNA has
been taken here there & everywhere, and there are other women who have
recounted in nearly identical terms of such sexual encounters with him.
None of them knew what they were letting themselves in for, from what I
gather. Who he indeed? In a nutshell, scum.

Sue

Sue Fensalir
Fensalir Astrology
s.fensalir@juno.com

Thread:	Job interview
From:	s.fensalir@juno.com (Sue Jorgenson)	Date:	Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:43:51 -0700

Hi, all:

I had a job interview this morning, and what makes it rather interesting
is that it took place on my birthday, less than a half-hour after my
birth time. So the Sun is in the same position in the horary chart and
my natal chart; the Ascendant is the same, albeit with five degrees'
difference. In any case, what happens when the Lord of the Ascendant -
Pluto - is in the First House?

Venus follows at 16 Scorpio, Mars at 28 Scorpio and Pluto at 3
Sagittarius; all are in the 1st house. The sixth contains Saturn at 17
Aries retrograde, quincunx Venus, and Venus/Ascendant form squares to
Uranus, Jupiter, Moon and MC. Pluto is nicely sextile the Sun.

Interview: 9:30 a.m. PDT, Costa Mesa California (33N38 117W55); it
concluded at 10:05 a.m.

(My natal data is 9-26-56, 9:06 a.m. PDT, Burbank California - use Los
Angeles coordinates)

Thank you very much!

Sue

Sue Fensalir
Fensalir Astrology
s.fensalir@juno.com

Thread:	Marv Albert Trial
From:	vesper@execpc.com	Date:	Fri, 26 Sep 1997 15:25:52 -0500 (CDT)

At 05:07 PM 9/25/97 -0300, you wrote:
>At 05:27 PM 9/25/97 +0000, Hardaspect@aol.com wrote:
>>For electional purposes, does anyone have the time of the beginning of the
>>Marv Albert trial?
>
>Does anyone have Marv Albert's birth data?
>
>Julienne
>
Its either June 12, 1941, or June 12, 1943, both Brooklyn, NY, both time
unknown. Either way its dirty data picked up from posts on other lists and
newspaper accounts of his current age...some say 54 and some say 56.
Hopefully someone will find more reliable data but thats all I have thus far.

Terri

Thread:	Querent as Seller
From:	treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)	Date:	Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:27:44 -0700 (PDT)

>Thanks, Sandra, for your reply - my comments are as below.
Jonathon

To Johnathan:
>
>I am new to the study of horary. If there is no relationship (shown by
aspects ) between the buyer and the seller, you don't have a sale whatever
is involved.

The passage I have in mind is on p. 205 of Christian Astrology and reads as
follows (I should probably have cited this in the first place)

"If the Lord of the Ascendant or the Moon apply to the Lord of the fourth or
the Moon [Moon can signify the property] to the Lord of the Ascendant...or
if the Lord of the Ascendant be in the fourth, or the Moon, or the Lord of
the fourth in the Ascendant, then shall the party enquiring buy the house..."

Can you simplify your question into one sentence then give the context, so
I can try to help?

Does the coming together of the Lords of the first and fourth signify
success if the querent is trying to sell rather than buy?
>
J.
Visit the Tree of Life website at:
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife

Thread:	Astrology and Blood Group study
From:	harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)	Date:	Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:46:34 +0100

I'm afraid this not very "Traditional" but I wonder if it would be okay to
send out a notice seeking volunteers for this study on the List? The
introduction to the study will discuss some aspects of traditional medical
astrology so there will be a connection in that way.

I am carrying out a study into astrological patterns and blood groups to see
if there are is an astrological pattern present in one group which is not
present in another. I would need a volunteer's time, date and place of
birth together with their blood group and where and how they got hold of the
informtion for both these pieces of data. If you have friends or family
members who can provide me with the relevant data for themselves and who
would like to take part I would be very pleased to hear from them, also


Pat.

Thread:	Querent as Seller
From:	spider@wildmaw.com (Mark Webb)	Date:	Fri, 26 Sep 1997 07:39:50 GMT

Jonathon,

As mentioned elsewhere, my understanding of the situation is that the
application or coming together represents the Querent moving towards
the time/place of the requested event. For instance, in the "Will the
employee leave the company?" question, the application indicates the
the Querent is moving towards the time of the event no application
indicates that there is no movement towards the event.

Regards,

Mark

Thread:	Marv Albert Trial
From:	jonn@mailhost.dircon.co.uk	Date:	Fri, 26 Sep 97 05:49:33 GMT

Marv Albert - who he?
--
Jon


-----------------------------Reply Separator---------------------------------
On 25/09/97 10:27, in message <970925132522_1030734130@emout14.mail.aol.com>,
Hardaspect@aol.com wrote:

> For electional purposes, does anyone have the time of the beginning of the
> Marv Albert trial?
>
>
> Basil Fearrington
>

Thread:	Marv Albert Trial
From:	Julienne <zjulienne@worldnet.att.net>	Date:	Thu, 25 Sep 1997 17:07:44 -0300

At 05:27 PM 9/25/97 +0000, Hardaspect@aol.com wrote:
>For electional purposes, does anyone have the time of the beginning of the
>Marv Albert trial?

Does anyone have Marv Albert's birth data?

Julienne

Thread:	Querent as Seller
From:	harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)	Date:	Thu, 25 Sep 1997 21:02:36 +0100

>Dear All,
>
>Many thanks for those of you who have put finger to keyboard on this one.
>
>My query is not about the resolution of the question by the coming together
>of the first and seventh significators. That one I can accept.
>
>I'm more concerned about the specific case of selling a house where there is
>no perfection between first and seventh so we look to the significators of
>the first and fourth.
>
>If the querent is selling then it is the coming together of the querent and
>his property (fourth) which doesn't chime for me since the property is
>leaving him.
>
>The same would apply with the significators of the first and second in the
>case of portable property or the first and sixth if the question were "Will
>my employee leave my company?"
>
Hi, Jonathan,

Sorry not to have been much help on this one. Following your logic on the
other houses, though, it would seem that the coming together of the seller's
significator with his own fourth may well indicate that he doesn't sell
because he wants to keep the property for some reason. Has anyone got any
real cases out there with this happening where the outcome is now known?

Pat.

Thread:	Marv Albert Trial
From:	Hardaspect@aol.com	Date:	Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:27:50 -0400 (EDT)

For electional purposes, does anyone have the time of the beginning of the
Marv Albert trial?


Basil Fearrington

Thread:	Querent as Seller
From:	treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)	Date:	Thu, 25 Sep 1997 02:17:22 -0700

Dear All,

Many thanks for those of you who have put finger to keyboard on this one.

My query is not about the resolution of the question by the coming together
of the first and seventh significators. That one I can accept.

I'm more concerned about the specific case of selling a house where there is
no perfection between first and seventh so we look to the significators of
the first and fourth.

If the querent is selling then it is the coming together of the querent and
his property (fourth) which doesn't chime for me since the property is
leaving him.

The same would apply with the significators of the first and second in the
case of portable property or the first and sixth if the question were "Will
my employee leave my company?"

Hope that makes the specific query clearer - I'm still open for business on
this one.

Thanks again for your input.

All the best,
Jonathon
Visit the Tree of Life website at:
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife

Thread:	Job search question
From:	Frank Ernest <fjernest@thepoint.net>	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:47:16 -0400

At 08:05 PM 9/23/97 EDT, you wrote:
>Question for those who know more than I:
>
>A question has come to me and the wording has me uncertain about framing
>the answer. The querent asks "should I go South in search of work?"
>Do I use 10th House for South, as well as "work". Do I look for
>Capricorn,( work), as South delineator? Or should I just look to 10th
>Work and see what is there.
>The wording of the question uses South as a theme., so I am not sure
>how to read this.

There are two questions here, both 1st house. The first is, "Where would I
be better off?" If one finds the benefics, Fortune and the Moon in the
desired direction, great. If one find the malefics, not essentially
dignified, in the desired direction, not great.

The second question is, "Where should I go to increase wealth?" Look at the
Second ruler, Fortune and Fortune's dispositor. Any two of these agreeing
would indicate the direction one should go to increase wealth by one's own
efforts.

Warm Regards,




>
>Thank you for taking the time to assist me here.
>
>Sue Miller
>Aikido@juno.com
>
Frank Ernest
A Traditional Astrologer
You are invited to visit my home page at:
http://www.thepoint.net/~fjernest

Thread:	Paying/Praying/Proselytizing
From:	Frank Ernest <fjernest@thepoint.net>	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:16:42 -0400

At 06:25 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Evidently Ms. Noel is being financially supported by her faith community as a
>missionary in her efforts to spread the love, light and the Peace of Christ
>throughout the internet. Let's hope her Conversion Oversight Committee does
>not grow weary counting her many converts. No! Wait! I'll bet she is so
>highly developed spiritually, she is a Breathatarian and survives only on
>(hot) air! But pity us poor working traditional astrologers, caught between
>religious fundamentalists on both sides! Perhaps we can just duck and they'd
>just sling their verbal arrows at one another. If this contest were ever to
>take place, I'd have to root for the Baptists: at least they use their real
>names.
>
>Maggie
>

Dear Maggie,

I believe the current phrase applying to people such as Ms. Noel is
"unreconstructed hippy." Even ol' William L. had problems with clients who
wanted his expertise for free.

Maybe we "poor" astrologers ought to collect fees from people who assign us
bad "karma." I'd say Ms. Noel is into this for about $100 so far. :)

Best wishes,


Frank Ernest
A Traditional Astrologer
You are invited to visit my home page at:
http://www.thepoint.net/~fjernest

Thread:	Hell devil
From:	maieutica@tassie.net.au	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 23:13:42 +1000

Claudia
Thanks for your response - guess I just got paranoid and then mortified
when I ssaw my email address wrote...(then the hell devil's tirade).

Best.

Christine

At 11:52 PM 23/09/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi, Christine,
>
>I for one did not think you were the author of the message. Her name was
>something NOEL. And when I wrote my reply to her, the message was
>returned to me by mail devil twice!!! Neither your name nor your e-mail
>address appeared on original note forwarded to list by Carol. You are
clear in
>my book. You are ON THE LIST!!!!!
>

Thread:	Job search question
From:	treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 05:57:50 -0700 (PDT)

>Question for those who know more than I:
>
>A question has come to me and the wording has me uncertain about framing
>the answer. The querent asks "should I go South in search of work?"
>Do I use 10th House for South, as well as "work". Do I look for
>Capricorn,( work), as South delineator? Or should I just look to 10th
>Work and see what is there.
>The wording of the question uses South as a theme., so I am not sure
>how to read this.
>
>Thank you for taking the time to assist me here.
>
>Sue Miller
>Aikido@juno.com

Dear Sue,

If there is uncertainty about the question itself I feel it is most
important to first check that the question is radical. Most people on this
list would probably agree that the clearer the question the clearer is the
chart.

Assuming the chart can be judged then I suggest the primary consideration is
the position and state of the signficators of the first house (querent) and
the tenth (occupation or career).
>
The position of the significator of the tenth (and first, plus Moon) may
give a clue to direction. Look to the tenth house as south but also consider
Capricorn as a significator of the south and the variations around that per
page 204 of Christian Astrology.

If you don't have a copy of CA shout again or put up the chart details and
the collective thinking of the Lilly list will probably give some further
suggestions.
Hope this helps.

All the best,
Jonathon
>
Visit the Tree of Life website at:
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife

Thread:	Why pray(?) when you can get it on-line free?
From:	Frank Ernest <fjernest@thepoint.net>	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:50:06 -0400

At 07:23 AM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
In reply to Whoozis, Will Morris writes:
>Wow!!!
>
>1. Off list topics. Leave!

Hopefully, it was a one-shot deal and Whoozis will accumulate her "karma"
somewhere else.

>2. Clearly defined fee for service is far more honest and reasonable than the
>hours of service and amounts of money that large spiritual oragnizations
>require from members with a veneer of "free".

Nothing runs very long without grease for the wheels. Money is the grease
of business.

>3. While you're at it, since psychotherapists take the place of priests at
>confession for a large part of our culture, they should provide from the
>goodness of heart as well.

Yes, along with physicians, lawyers, plumbers, etc.

>4. Get real. There is a home a business and family to run. There is no
>superstructure of the church to provide for astrologers.

In some cases, there are. However, there are still fees. Nonetheless, if
one's business is Astrology, one charges a fee same as any other service
provider.
>
>Please excuse my tone......List Keeper delete if you feel this is
>innappropriate.
>
I agree with everything you said, and, in my opinion, your tone was quite
reserved and diplomatic. I would guess List Keeper thought so too as your
message wasn't deleted. :)

Best Wishes,


Frank Ernest
A Traditional Astrologer
You are invited to visit my home page at:
http://www.thepoint.net/~fjernest

Thread:	The querent as seller
From:	treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 05:36:24 -0700

>>Dear Pat,
>
>
>>In her book "Simpllified Horary Astrology" Ivy Goldstein-Jacobsen writes:
>>(p214) "Take the 1st house for the querent who wants to buy or sell, and the
>>7th house for the other person in the transaction..."
>>
>>(And never, never, never give the lst house to anyone but the "Querent" in
>>the matter - particularly if you are taking the QHP course....)
>
>Sorry, I may not have been clear enough in my original posting. I'm not
>disputing that the querent is ever anything other than the first. Rather, I
>ma trying to drive at what may be a contradiction if the querent is the
>seller and perfection is to be signified by the coming together of two
>planets - this doesn't seem, symbolically, to represent what is happening.
>
>Cheers,
>Jonathon
>
>>
>>In other words, the 1st rules the Querent whether he/she be buyer or seller
>>and you must interpret the significators accordingly. Eg the 4th from the
>>1st is the property for sale belonging to the Querent if the Querent is the
>>seller in the transaction.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Pat.
>>

Yes. Agreed. But is perfection achieved by the joining of these two
significators. A joining does not seem to reflect what is happening in a sale.

J.




>>>Opinions sought on this old favourite:
>>>
>>>Where the querent is the purchaser (of, for example, a house) the
>>>application of the significators of the first and seventh or first and
>>>fourth seem to describe the process taking place (coming together of two
>>>entities) but where the question is about a sale is it still the application
>>>of these two significators which denotes success even though, symbollically,
>>>they are parting company?
>>>
>>>I look forward to receiving your collective thoughts.
>>>
>>>All the best,
>>>Jonathon
>>>Visit the Tree of Life website at:
>>>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>Visit the Tree of Life website at:
>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife
>
>
>
Visit the Tree of Life website at:
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife

Thread:	Birth time rectification
From:	"Jerry Wong" <jerry@oops.com.au>	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:35:16 -0000

Hi,

I live in Sydney, Australia.
I have some friends who are very interested in astrology and would like to
have their birth charts created. Unfortunately, they do not know their
birth time. The next thing I can think of is to get a good astrologer to
have the birth time rectified. Do you know if there are any GOOD
astrologers who can perform the birth time rectification ? Thank you very
much.

Yours sincerely,


Jerry

Thread:	The querent as seller
From:	Frank Ernest <fjernest@thepoint.net>	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:28:17 -0400

At 07:17 AM 9/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Sorry, I may not have been clear enough in my original posting. I'm not
>disputing that the querent is ever anything other than the first. Rather, I
>ma trying to drive at what may be a contradiction if the querent is the
>seller and perfection is to be signified by the coming together of two
>planets - this doesn't seem, symbolically, to represent what is happening.
>
>Cheers,
>Jonathon

Any successful transaction is an exchange of equal value, i.e., cash for
property and property for cash. No matter what the question, perfection is
attained by the general rules regarding significators, aspects, translation
and collection of light, etc. The chart doesn't reverse itself should the
querent be a buyer rather than a seller. Whether the querent be buyer or
seller, if his significator applies to that of the quesited, the
transaction will be perfected under the usual rules.

One should be clear on "symbols." Astrology is a language that uses
symbols, as all languages do. However, those symbols point to real
situations and real people, not symbolic situations and people. Astrology
tells one what is really happening, not what is symbolically happening.

Warm Regards,






Frank Ernest
A Traditional Astrologer
You are invited to visit my home page at:
http://www.thepoint.net/~fjernest

Thread:	Terms
From:	WMorris116@aol.com	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:11:20 -0400 (EDT)

Has anyone made a comparative study of Egyptian vs Ptolemeic terms?

Thanx

Will Morris

Thread:	Why PAY when you can get it on line???
From:	WMorris116@aol.com	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:59:20 -0400 (EDT)

Very well, I'm glad you cleared it up and am comforted. That material smacks
of inquisition. Maybe you could forward these posts to that individual. In
the future, framing the post and including names and addresses of all parties
concerned may prevent useless bandwidth waste.

Thank You

Will

<< Hey, Will Morris - I did NOT write this tirad to the list. I replied
(unfortunately have deleted both my reply and this appauling note below
which came in via the list) and changed the subject from "Why PAY when you
can get it on line" to "Why PRAY when you can get it on line". I'm the
most unlikely person to write such gobbledygook.

When I received this so called christian tirad message there was no
signature - hence I addressed mine to "Dear No Name"

Just had to clear this up - FAST!

sincerely

Christine Stribley
maieutica@tassie.net.au
In a message dated 97-09-22 23:08:54 EDT, maieutica@tassie.net.au writes: >>

Thread:	The querent as seller
From:	harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:29:25 +0100

Dear Jonathon,

I was only trying to be funny witht the following
>>
>>(And never, never, never give the lst house to anyone but the "Querent" in
>>the matter - particularly if you are taking the QHP course....)

Because of my personal experiences in this area....

>Sorry, I may not have been clear enough in my original posting. I'm not
>disputing that the querent is ever anything other than the first.
First, of course, you have to be absolutely certain who the Querent is ...
and determination, in my experience, may not always so cut and dried as it
should be.

>Rather, I
>ma trying to drive at what may be a contradiction if the querent is the
>seller and perfection is to be signified by the coming together of two
>planets - this doesn't seem, symbolically, to represent what is >happening.

Sorry to be thick but I'm still not clear - can you give a working example.
Do you mean if the Seller as querent has his/her ruler applying to the ruler
of his/her fourth then it may indicate that the seller is moving towards
his/her own property whereas if the buyer's significator does not do this
then the buyer does not appear to be interested in the property? You would
have to check out the Moon as co-ruler of the Querent and links (mutual
reception etc.) between buyer and seller via significators first to see if a
sale could be effected. Maybe a perfecting aspect between the seller and
his property might indicate a reluctance on the part of the seller to sell
but if the aspect were beneficial the end result may be so.

Kind regards,

Pat.

Thread:	Re[4]: 4th/10th
From:	"Nicholas Grier" <n.grier@napier.ac.uk>	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 97 11:03:05 gmt

Dear Frank,
Yours is a very fair point. Well worth consideration.
Nicholas


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: 4th/10th
Author: "Carol A. Wiggers" <william_lilly@halcyon.com> at internet-gateway
Date: 23/09/97 19:37


>Message was resent -- Original recipients were:
To:
william_lilly@halcyon.com-------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
At 11:07 AM 9/22/97 gmt, you wrote:
> Hi, everyone,
[snip]
> Leaving that aside, in the context of the discussion of 4th-10th
> rulership of parents, might it not be instructive to see what actually
> works in practice nowadays ? I personally find that 4th house does
> very well for home and Mum, and tenth house for career and Dad. That's
> what works for me, but I am not pretending that it is therefore
> "right" What do the rest of you find in your ordinary day to day
> practice ? You can see the Dr Johnson-like pragmatic approach
> considerably appeals to me......
>
> Let's hear what you all think.
>
> Nicholas

Dear Nicholas,

I suspect that the apparent 4th-10th parenting dichotomy is more a result
of sexual politics than nature. My experience is that the 4th describes
father generally and the 10th describes mother generally. Using your
experience, one might encounter a difficulty using 10th for career and Dad
in a household where Mum has the career and Dad stays home with the
children, for instance. I suspect further that the home-career distinction
is a misleading one.

My point is that the 4th-10th parent axis is determined by what goes on in
nature, not what is superficial and socially trendy at the moment. I submit
that the association of Dad and career 10th is misleading. The 10th is
*your* professional standing, not your father's. The 4th is *your* home and
foundations, not your mother's.

For your consideration.


Frank Ernest
A Traditional Astrologer
You are invited to visit my home page at:
http://www.thepoint.net/~fjernest

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	"dorothy j kovach" <astrodot@hotmail.com>	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:13:32 PDT

dear complaining person,
>
I fail to understand why you write this letter. Mrs. Wiggers is one of
the hardest working people I know of. Further she brings us this list,
and if you think that that is easy, you are very misinformed. I am very
disappointed that you can even think of writing such a letter. This
list, which by the way, brings you the very finest astrologers from
around the world, is absolutely free. So I don't exactly know what you
are snivelling about. Personally, I feel extrememly grateful to Mrs.
Wiggers for providing this excellent list to everybody. As I have said
in the past, Carol deserves a medal for this. I hope that in the future
you learn to get all your facts straight before you write such a letter,
because, in my humble opinion, your letter was very unprofessional.

disappointedly,
Dorothy J. Kovach
dstar@mcn.org

>you wrote:
>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism........

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	spider@wildmaw.com (Mark Webb)	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:30:30 GMT

Deb,

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:10:23 -0400, you wrote:

>Carol,
>
>You do seem to atract them lately don't you? (Actually I get them myself
>from time to time but they go straight to the delete button.)

But that *is* understandable. (gd&r)

>You know that the only people who get motivated to fill their time writing
>discouraging and critical comments like this are only ever those that are
>inflamed with jealousy. Hey, it's their problem not yours!!

It livens up the list once in a while :-)

>Forget this and laugh it off - it's nothing. People appreciate you more
>than you'll ever realise.

Hear! Hear! Don't let it put you off, we need both this list and all
your other work (you too Deb.)

Regards,

Mark

Thread:	The querent as seller
From:	spider@wildmaw.com (Mark Webb)	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:30:28 GMT

Jonathon,

On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 06:06:43 -0700, you wrote:

>Opinions sought on this old favourite:
>
>Where the querent is the purchaser (of, for example, a house) the
>application of the significators of the first and seventh or first and
>fourth seem to describe the process taking place (coming together of two
>entities) but where the question is about a sale is it still the application
>of these two significators which denotes success even though, symbollically,
>they are parting company?

There are still two entities coming together - the buyer and the
seller, even when the querent is the seller. Even if you consider
that the seller is parting company with the item being sold there is a
coming together of the seller and the time/place of the sale.

Regards,

Mark

Thread:	Why pray(?) when you can get it on-line free?
From:	WMorris116@aol.com	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:35:35 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 97-09-23 23:27:13 EDT, allen_edwall@compuserve.com writes:

<< >> What costs little is worth little

Does that apply to the teachings of Christ, Buddha, Confucious, etc?

>>

Thread:	Why pray(?) when you can get it on-line free?
From:	allen edwall <allen_edwall@compuserve.com>	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 22:27:40 -0400

>> What costs little is worth little

Does that apply to the teachings of Christ, Buddha, Confucious, etc?

Thread:	4th/10th: response to Michael
From:	vesper@execpc.com	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:27:15 -0500 (CDT)

Interesting. Ten years ago when my husband went to court for custody of his
children from his first marriage, the court-appointed social worker told him
he would make a poor custodial parent since he was out earning a living and
unavailable to be at home to care for the children all day. Seems like
maybe the legal tables have turned with a vengeance.

Terri

At 05:46 PM 9/23/97 -0500, John wrote:
>Maybe, maybe not. I've heard that it didn't used to be like this, that in
>fact during the pre-feminism era men who wanted custody could be pretty
>sure they'd get it, whether or not the mother was fit or not. If this is
>true, it was probably because men had jobs outside the home and could
>better muster the resources to care for a child when child support was not
>a standard award.
>
>John
>

>>Thank you for your input. I think you have raised some very valid and
>>important issues. Although the American court system could be viewed as an
>>old boy's club, it still usually rules in favor of motherhood in
>>custody/visitation/support matters. Perhaps that is in part because
>>America's natal chart has a Sun in Cancer?
>>
>>Respectfully,
>>
>>Terri
>
******************************************************************************

"I'll find you in the morning sun,
and when the night is new...
I'll be looking at the moon,
but I'll be seeing you... "

Irving Kahal - Sammy Fain, copyright 1938

******************************************************************************

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	"Paul O. Hewit" <paulhewit@cyberlink.bc.ca>	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:01:06 -0600 (MDT)

Dear Carol,

THIS ONE required a response.

Cheers, Paul



At 02:38 PM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>
>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>
>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.
>
>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.
>

To quote Hewit's First Rule of Human Interaction:
"Words spoken/written with anger or with emotion are an unconsciously spoken
Self Description"

Whoever you are - you have a problem - and the problem isn't Carol Wiggers
or anyone else making a living from decades of work developing a skill.
You'd better take another look at the "mote in your own eye" before sending
badly written, pontificating letters to people you do not know.

Keep in mind your letter is just you describing you. If your own spiritual
debts are "rising higher and higher" then you definitely have some work to
do - and you can start by using your own anger to take a good look at
yourself in the mirror.

Thread:	Why PAY when you can get it on line???
From:	maieutica@tassie.net.au	Date:	Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:23:26 +1000

Hey, Will Morris - I did NOT write this tirad to the list. I replied
(unfortunately have deleted both my reply and this appauling note below
which came in via the list) and changed the subject from "Why PAY when you
can get it on line" to "Why PRAY when you can get it on line". I'm the
most unlikely person to write such gobbledygook.

When I received this so called christian tirad message there was no
signature - hence I addressed mine to "Dear No Name"

Just had to clear this up - FAST!

sincerely

Christine Stribley
maieutica@tassie.net.au
In a message dated 97-09-22 23:08:54 EDT, maieutica@tassie.net.au writes:

<< >Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>
>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>
>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.
>
>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey. >>

Wow!!!

1. Off list topics. Leave!
2. Clearly defined fee for service is far more honest and reasonable than the
hours of service and amounts of money that large spiritual oragnizations
require from members with a veneer of "free".
3. While you're at it, since psychotherapists take the place of priests at
confession for a large part of our culture, they should provide from the
goodness of heart as well.
4. Get real. There is a home a business and family to run. There is no
superstructure of the church to provide for astrologers.

Please excuse my tone......List Keeper delete if you feel this is
innappropriate.

Sincerely,

Will Morris

Thread:	4th/10th: response to Michael
From:	vesper@execpc.com	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:08:59 -0500 (CDT)

>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:41:51
>To: Paula & John <jhl3@zebra.net>
>From: vesper@execpc.com
>Subject: Re: 4th/10th: response to Michael
>
>At 11:17 PM 9/22/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Yeah, yeah, yeah. "Deadbeat Dads." There's a new one. I hear the same
>>thing from my ex, in spite of the fact that I'm never even late with child
>>support.
>
>[snipped]
>
>>Motherhood may have media rhetoric on its side. . . but it's no triviality
>>that mythologies of the world cast the mother as both creator _and_
>>destroyer. Deadbeat Dads indeed. As though mere money defines a person.
>>What's amazing is that Dads are labeled Deadbeats, when a far higher
>>percentage of mothers fail to pay child support than fathers. Figure that
>>one out.
>>
>>John
>
>John,
>
>Thank you for your input. I think you have raised some very valid and
important issues. Although the American court system could be viewed as an
old boy's club, it still usually rules in favor of motherhood in
custody/visitation/support matters. Perhaps that is in part because
America's natal chart has a Sun in Cancer?
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Terri
>
******************************************************************************

"I'll find you in the morning sun,
and when the night is new...
I'll be looking at the moon,
but I'll be seeing you... "

Irving Kahal - Sammy Fain, copyright 1938

******************************************************************************

Thread:	Paying/Praying/Proselytizing
From:	AstroMaggi@aol.com	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:25:28 -0400 (EDT)

Evidently Ms. Noel is being financially supported by her faith community as a
missionary in her efforts to spread the love, light and the Peace of Christ
throughout the internet. Let's hope her Conversion Oversight Committee does
not grow weary counting her many converts. No! Wait! I'll bet she is so
highly developed spiritually, she is a Breathatarian and survives only on
(hot) air! But pity us poor working traditional astrologers, caught between
religious fundamentalists on both sides! Perhaps we can just duck and they'd
just sling their verbal arrows at one another. If this contest were ever to
take place, I'd have to root for the Baptists: at least they use their real
names.

Maggie

Thread:	Job search question
From:	aikido@juno.com (Sue Miller)	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:05:57 EDT

Question for those who know more than I:

A question has come to me and the wording has me uncertain about framing
the answer. The querent asks "should I go South in search of work?"
Do I use 10th House for South, as well as "work". Do I look for
Capricorn,( work), as South delineator? Or should I just look to 10th
Work and see what is there.
The wording of the question uses South as a theme., so I am not sure
how to read this.

Thank you for taking the time to assist me here.

Sue Miller
Aikido@juno.com

Thread:	Why pray(?) when you can get it on-line free?
From:	Hardaspect@aol.com	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:18:14 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 97-09-22 23:10:01 EDT, you write:

<< >As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>
>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.
>
>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey. >>

This is the height of ridiculous. If I spend eight hours a day for five-six
days a week helping people to make decisions about life AT THEIR REQUEST, I
am using time in my life when I could be doing something for myself.
Therefore, there must be a fee for the use of my time. Otherwise, how does
one make a living? What costs little is worth little.

Basil Fearrington

Thread:	The querent as seller
From:	harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:05:16 +0100

Sorry, Jonathan, I original sent my reply to the following straight to you
by mistake. It's this damned business of pressing the reply button and your
post together with your personal e-mail in the "from" slot re-appearing in
the "to" slot on my reply frame. Sometimes I forget to delete it and
replace it with "william_lilly@halcyon.com" before I press the "send"
button. Anyway ......


In her book "Simplified Horary Astrology" Ivy Goldstein-Jacobsen writes:
(p214) "Take the 1st house for the querent who wants to buy or sell, and the
7th house for the other person in the transaction ..."

(And never, never, never give the 1st house to anyone but the "Querent" in
the matter - particularly if you are taking the QHP course ...)

In other words, the 1st rules the Qurent whether he/she be buyer or seller
and you must interpret the significators accordingly. Eg the 4th from the
1st is the property for sale belonging to the Querent if the Querent is the
seller in the transaction.

Regards,

Pat.

>Opinions sought on this old favourite:
>
>Where the querent is the purchaser (of, for example, a house) the
>application of the significators of the first and seventh or first and
>fourth seem to describe the process taking place (coming together of two
>entities) but where the question is about a sale is it still the application
>of these two significators which denotes success even though, symbollically,
>they are parting company?
>
>I look forward to receiving your collective thoughts.
>
>All the best,
>Jonathon

Thread:	The querent as seller
From:	treelife@easynet.co.uk (Maggy Whitehouse/Jonathon Clark)	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:17:19 -0700 (PDT)

>Dear Pat,


>In her book "Simpllified Horary Astrology" Ivy Goldstein-Jacobsen writes:
>(p214) "Take the 1st house for the querent who wants to buy or sell, and the
>7th house for the other person in the transaction..."
>
>(And never, never, never give the lst house to anyone but the "Querent" in
>the matter - particularly if you are taking the QHP course....)

Sorry, I may not have been clear enough in my original posting. I'm not
disputing that the querent is ever anything other than the first. Rather, I
ma trying to drive at what may be a contradiction if the querent is the
seller and perfection is to be signified by the coming together of two
planets - this doesn't seem, symbolically, to represent what is happening.

Cheers,
Jonathon

>
>In other words, the 1st rules the Querent whether he/she be buyer or seller
>and you must interpret the significators accordingly. Eg the 4th from the
>1st is the property for sale belonging to the Querent if the Querent is the
>seller in the transaction.
>
>Regards,
>
>Pat.
>
>>Opinions sought on this old favourite:
>>
>>Where the querent is the purchaser (of, for example, a house) the
>>application of the significators of the first and seventh or first and
>>fourth seem to describe the process taking place (coming together of two
>>entities) but where the question is about a sale is it still the application
>>of these two significators which denotes success even though, symbollically,
>>they are parting company?
>>
>>I look forward to receiving your collective thoughts.
>>
>>All the best,
>>Jonathon
>>Visit the Tree of Life website at:
>>http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife
>>
>>
>
>
>
Visit the Tree of Life website at:
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	Deborah Houlding <Deborah_Houlding@compuserve.com>	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:10:23 -0400

Carol,

You do seem to atract them lately don't you? (Actually I get them myself
from time to time but they go straight to the delete button.) I had an
email the other day from this guy telling me that my website might be
pretty but it's completely impractical and therefore useless, and why don't
I seek the advice of a professional web designer who would know what they
were doing. I thought about responding and telling him that he had free
choice, and if he didn't like the site that was making me an old woman
before my time, why doesn't he just not visit it? But then I figured that
one second of my time wasted on stating the obvious to this man was more
than he deserved, so I just 'deleted' him - best thing you can do.
You know that the only people who get motivated to fill their time writing
discouraging and critical comments like this are only ever those that are
inflamed with jealousy. Hey, it's their problem not yours!!

>
>Dear Ms. Wiggers,

>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified,

-- (she means 'who' of course, and the rest of the letter suggests that
she really does need certifying, but that has a different meaning over here
in the UK)

>but knows the depth of her professionalism,

-- her professionalism is immediately obvious, don't you think?

> I have but one question to ask.

-- Real question should read: "how come you are getting a lot of respect
and I'm not? I know you break your back on this stuff but that's not the
issue, and it's not that I want success, because I don't, because I'm
certainly I'm not prepared to break my back -- I just want my karma to be
your karma, -- I want you to be bitter and unknown like I am"

Of course, this spiritually enlightened person hasn't yet read all the
teachings of Christ -- all that 'man know yourself' stuff, and so the
question is translated into:

> If you value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?

-- ["when I can't?"]

>I am angered at people like you,

-- "and so full of the teachings of Christ that I'm unable to turn the
other cheek, or suppress my anger!!!
The only way that I can restore my inner harmony is to insult you and try
to make you feel worthless"

> for you show no respect to the persons

-- Oh blah de blah de blah..........

Carol, I long since realised that people judge others according to their
own standards. Whenever someone says something nasty about somebody else,
it's revealing more about the person who concieves the thought than the one
being insulted.

Forget this and laugh it off - it's nothing. People appreciate you more
than you'll ever realise.

Take care of yourself

Love Deb

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	jeanneg@icon.net (Jeanne Garner)	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:05:22 -0500

Dear Ms. Noel,

You said:

>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>
>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.
>
>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.

>From the annals of Christianity--"Judge not, lest ye be judged." If you
don't feel that this teaching applies to you, then I suppose you ought to
thank everyone on this mailing list for giving you something to do during
your morning prayers. I know I keep the local Baptist churches fairly well
occupied, what with being an astrologer, Reiki teacher, and a student of the
miraculous. :)

No doubt you occasionally judge yourself as harshly as you judge others
(that's usually the case). Take it easier on yourself and everyone. It's a
loving Universe, not a vindictive one.

Jeanne
==-* My stars!

Thread:	A Christian Response
From:	Frank Ernest <fjernest@thepoint.net>	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:52:48 -0400

At 02:38 PM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Ms. Wiggers,

I can't answer for Ms. Wiggers, but I can answer for me.
>
>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?

I doubt that you are a professional astrologer, rather a dreamer on an
independent income. Ms. Wiggers has every "right" to market her knowledge
and expertise and derive the appropriate income for doing so. Your personal
attack on Ms. Wiggers does not lead one to believe you are Christian either.
>
>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.

Some observations:

My experience with people who devote their limited intellects to "spiritual
oracles" is that "spiritual" is a ready excuse for an oracle that consists of
sometimes-right, most-times-wrong, guesswork.

It is not up to you, or anyone else, to determine what's moral and what
isn't. Those questions, for Christians, are settled by Biblical teachings,
not your moralistic meanderings into bastardized metaphysics. The persons
responsible for doing as you suggest are also the persons responsible for
perverting astrology beyond all recognition.
>
>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.

And what "karma" will you accumulate for your scurrulous defamation of Ms.
Wiggers? I doubt you even know what "karma" is. For a full explanation of
"karma", please forward $50 US cash (your "karmic" debt for my services)
and I will be happy to explain it to you. :)

Warm Regards,

Rev. Frank Ernest DD

Thread:	Re[2]: 4th/10th
From:	Frank Ernest <fjernest@thepoint.net>	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:48:49 -0400

At 11:07 AM 9/22/97 gmt, you wrote:
> Hi, everyone,
[snip]
> Leaving that aside, in the context of the discussion of 4th-10th
> rulership of parents, might it not be instructive to see what actually
> works in practice nowadays ? I personally find that 4th house does
> very well for home and Mum, and tenth house for career and Dad. That's
> what works for me, but I am not pretending that it is therefore
> "right" What do the rest of you find in your ordinary day to day
> practice ? You can see the Dr Johnson-like pragmatic approach
> considerably appeals to me......
>
> Let's hear what you all think.
>
> Nicholas

Dear Nicholas,

I suspect that the apparent 4th-10th parenting dichotomy is more a result
of sexual politics than nature. My experience is that the 4th describes
father generally and the 10th describes mother generally. Using your
experience, one might encounter a difficulty using 10th for career and Dad
in a household where Mum has the career and Dad stays home with the
children, for instance. I suspect further that the home-career distinction
is a misleading one.

My point is that the 4th-10th parent axis is determined by what goes on in
nature, not what is superficial and socially trendy at the moment. I submit
that the association of Dad and career 10th is misleading. The 10th is
*your* professional standing, not your father's. The 4th is *your* home and
foundations, not your mother's.

For your consideration.


Frank Ernest
A Traditional Astrologer
You are invited to visit my home page at:
http://www.thepoint.net/~fjernest

Thread:	Why pray(?) when you can get it on-line free?
From:	WMorris116@aol.com	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:23:59 -0400 (EDT)

In a message dated 97-09-22 23:08:54 EDT, maieutica@tassie.net.au writes:

<< >Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>
>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>
>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.
>
>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey. >>

Wow!!!

1. Off list topics. Leave!
2. Clearly defined fee for service is far more honest and reasonable than the
hours of service and amounts of money that large spiritual oragnizations
require from members with a veneer of "free".
3. While you're at it, since psychotherapists take the place of priests at
confession for a large part of our culture, they should provide from the
goodness of heart as well.
4. Get real. There is a home a business and family to run. There is no
superstructure of the church to provide for astrologers.

Please excuse my tone......List Keeper delete if you feel this is
innappropriate.

Sincerely,

Will Morris

Thread:	Why pray(?) when you can get it on-line free?
From:	harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris)	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 11:41:37 +0100

>
>
> At 02:38 PM 22/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>>
>>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>>

Well, now, I seem to remember a very respected person from long ago called
Jesus O'Nazareth, who made a point of saying that "a workman was worthy of
his hire". Astrology is a learned skill which leads to the provision of a
(hopefully) competent service so I guess we could call ourselves workmen
(and women, of course) ....

Pat.

Thread:	Re[2]: 4th/10th
From:	Miriam Laister <cosmic@dove.mtx.net.au>	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:54:24

Dear Listers,

In practice I find that these days you can't generalise on the ruler of the
parents. I generally find that as most couples began to share the child
rearing the houses became interchangeable. I look at the signs and planets
in the houses and ask about the parents sun signs. This usually points out
which parent in which house.

Love from over here,
Miriam
--
"We stood at last beyond the Gold Gate. Masters of Time and Fate, and knew
the song that Sun and Stars were singing."
Miriam Laister - THE COSMIC EXPERIENCE astrology newsletter - GEMINI TAPES
astrology lectures on tape.

Thread:	Your Letter to Carol Wiggers
From:	Joanne Greig <astrea@actrix.co.at>	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:08:18 +0200

Looks like Ms. Noel is trying to drum up business by attracting attention
to herself - denigrating Ms. Wiggers is a very bad way of doing it though,

chhers, Joanne


At 20:23 22-09-97 -0700, you wrote:
>Dear Ms. Noel:
>
>I am not sure why you singled out Ms. Wiggers for your remarks. I confess I
>am
>stunned that a person who professes the spiritual teachings of Christ and of
>
>other avatars would take it upon herself to send such a threatening letter
>to
>Ms. Wiggers. I can only say that your remarks are terribly uninformed,
>naive,
>and witlessly hurtful. As I have studied the teachings of Christ, I have
>come to realize that HE would never deliver such attacks upon human beings.
>As his lesson was tolerance,
>compassion and mercy, I must confess confusion as to your understanding of
>what
>walking in the path of the Lord actually means to you.
>
>Ms. Wiggers needs no justification nor any defense for her lifelong calling
>to the
>celestial science. Therefore, I will not lower Ms. Wiggers' integrity by
>pretending
>that I am qualified to do so. My letter to you merely outlines my
>perplexity at how
>you seem to place yourself in the position of a sanctified jurist. I do
>not
>believe you qualify for that role.
>
>Peace.
>
>
>
>Megan J. Noel wrote:
>
>> Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>>
>> As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>> depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>> value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>> place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>> entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>> ? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>> 8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>>
>> I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>> persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>> to use and learn from.
>>
>> There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>> must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>> and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>> and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.
>
>
>
>--
>Best Wishes from Your StarGazer,
>
>StarCats
>
>For information on how
>to set an appointment with
>me for your chart reading,
>e-mail me and I will send
>you my FAQ sheet!
>
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\joanne\eudora\attach\vcard.vcf"
>

Thread:	4th/10th: response to Michael
From:	Paula & John <jhl3@zebra.net>	Date:	Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:17:01 -0500

Yeah, yeah, yeah. "Deadbeat Dads." There's a new one. I hear the same
thing from my ex, in spite of the fact that I'm never even late with child
support.

Astrologically, this has been a very bad year for my ex (heavily afflicted
5th), though, which perhaps is why it has been so easy for my attorney to
wipe the floor with her. _She's_ the one who seems not to care about the
emotional harm she's doing to our daughter. Moon squares Saturn
(5th-ruler) in her natal chart--hardly a good beginning. The only
beneficial aspect to Saturn is from the Sun, (-10 by Lilly) in the 12th.
This helps explain at least partially, I suppose, why she felt justified in
hiding my kid from me for three months, ignoring my court-ordered
visitation requests, badmouthing me to my daughter (who asks me repeatedly
why her mother "makes" me fight with her--a conclusion she arrived at, I
think, because I don't fight with her in front of her, she simply launches
into venomous monologues), and so forth. As soon as Jupiter leaves her 5th
house iin a year-and-a half, I'm hauling her back into court and suing for
custody, and I'll win; she's continued to break the new court order, the
child's law guardian is fed up with her, and she still has no idea of the
forces rallied against her (Neptune in the 1st?).

Motherhood may have media rhetoric on its side. . . but it's no triviality
that mythologies of the world cast the mother as both creator _and_
destroyer. Deadbeat Dads indeed. As though mere money defines a person.
What's amazing is that Dads are labeled Deadbeats, when a far higher
percentage of mothers fail to pay child support than fathers. Figure that
one out.

John

>Yo, Michael -
>
>Hold it right there...you haven't met my ex husband or other deadbeat
>dads...I've been involved in a divorce/custody battle for over three
>years in Southern California, and when I left the ex I thought he, like
>me, would keep our small one out of the divorce battle. Nope. He used and
>continues to use her as a pawn, causing all sorts of trouble with child
>support, Social Services, Juvenile Court, family law court, appeals court
>- at last count, eight or nine courthouses in two counties for all the
>divorce-related issues. Please consider the issues of deadbeat dads (he
>owes me over $9 grand based on the judge's estimation of his earnings,
>being self-employed, he falsified his records) and not-quite-right-in-the
>head dads (that's him, too). Okay? I'm sick to death of courts and
>divorce and all that crap but he has inflicted emotional abuse on our
>daughter which should never have happened in the first place, and it's my
>(willing) duty as her mom to protect her and help her work these issues
>out. She's only five now.
>
>Thanks for listening to the other side of the coin.
>
>Sue
>
>Sue Fensalir
>Fensalir Astrology
>s.fensalir@juno.com
>


=============================================
"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the
argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

William Pitt
-----------------
PGP Public key available upon request
=============================================

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	Agnes Moscrip <anyes@ix.netcom.com>	Date:	Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:37:12 -0400

Your tirade is a testimony to your so called professionalism!
If you don't like this list, why are you reading it?

Anyes

Thread:	Your Letter to Carol Wiggers
From:	"Claudia D. Dikinis" <starcats@earthlink.net>	Date:	Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:23:59 -0700

X-PMFLAGS: 573046912 0

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Dear Ms. Noel:

I am not sure why you singled out Ms. Wiggers for your remarks. I confess I
am
stunned that a person who professes the spiritual teachings of Christ and of

other avatars would take it upon herself to send such a threatening letter
to
Ms. Wiggers. I can only say that your remarks are terribly uninformed,
naive,
and witlessly hurtful. As I have studied the teachings of Christ, I have
come to realize that HE would never deliver such attacks upon human beings.
As his lesson was tolerance,
compassion and mercy, I must confess confusion as to your understanding of
what
walking in the path of the Lord actually means to you.

Ms. Wiggers needs no justification nor any defense for her lifelong calling
to the
celestial science. Therefore, I will not lower Ms. Wiggers' integrity by
pretending
that I am qualified to do so. My letter to you merely outlines my
perplexity at how
you seem to place yourself in the position of a sanctified jurist. I do
not
believe you qualify for that role.

Peace.



Megan J. Noel wrote:

> Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>
> As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
> depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
> value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
> place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
> entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
> ? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
> 8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>
> I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
> persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
> to use and learn from.
>
> There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
> must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
> and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
> and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.



--
Best Wishes from Your StarGazer,

StarCats

For information on how
to set an appointment with
me for your chart reading,
e-mail me and I will send
you my FAQ sheet!


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Thread:	Why pray(?) when you can get it on-line free?
From:	maieutica@tassie.net.au	Date:	Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:53:18 +1000

At 02:38 PM 22/09/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Ms. Wiggers,
>
>As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
>depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
>value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
>place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
>entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
>? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
>8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?
>
>I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
>persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
>to use and learn from.
>
>There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
>must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
>and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
>and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.

Dear No Name

I feel your remarks are somewhat offensive. I have been enjoying this list
for sometime and find it a terrific learning tool.

If you're prepared to publish and offer wonderful books on astrology for
*free* please go ahead. And BTW receiving a chart(or oracle) in cyberspace
can
hardly be compared to a personal consultation.

Perhaps you're angry at not receiving the respect you feel you deserve?

Lighten up.
Christine

Thread:	4th/10th: response to Michael
From:	s.fensalir@juno.com (Sue Jorgenson)	Date:	Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:57:00 -0700

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:16:26 pdt siderealm@juno.com (Michael K Jordan)
writes:
>Julienne.
>
>
>On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:25:54 -0300 Julienne
><zjulienne@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>>At 04:21 AM 9/16/97 +0000, Diana K. Rosenberg wrote:
>>>Angela Reeve UK(UTC +01:00) wrote:
>>>
>Angela Reeve:
>>>When the women's movement really took hold in the 1970's, I thought
>a
>>>lot about why men were so keen to keep women away from power, and
>>came to
>>the conclusion that women are innately powerful (they are the first
>>controlling power in a child's life), while men have somehow to reach
>
>>for
>>power to prove themselves.
>
>Julienne:
>>Isn't a large chunk of this because women take the responsibility for
>
>>the
>>children, while men eschew it? One might say women have
>responsibility
>>thrust on them because of the abdication
>>and avoidance of the men.
>
>Michael:
>In California (40,000,000 pop.) in CONTESTED custody decisions; women
>get awarded 90 percent custody 90 percent of the time. If the courts
>are 90% against men in their decisions in these matters why on earth
>would another single sane man ever contest custody? Most walk away
>with bread and bus fare anyway. The men never abdicated, they simply
>had their spirits snapped by a generation of bad law. This curiously
>happened concurrently with the election/approval of judges here in
>California.
>
> Because women are stronger, smarter, and they don't play fair when it
>comes to THEIR children.


Yo, Michael -

Hold it right there...you haven't met my ex husband or other deadbeat
dads...I've been involved in a divorce/custody battle for over three
years in Southern California, and when I left the ex I thought he, like
me, would keep our small one out of the divorce battle. Nope. He used and
continues to use her as a pawn, causing all sorts of trouble with child
support, Social Services, Juvenile Court, family law court, appeals court
- at last count, eight or nine courthouses in two counties for all the
divorce-related issues. Please consider the issues of deadbeat dads (he
owes me over $9 grand based on the judge's estimation of his earnings,
being self-employed, he falsified his records) and not-quite-right-in-the
head dads (that's him, too). Okay? I'm sick to death of courts and
divorce and all that crap but he has inflicted emotional abuse on our
daughter which should never have happened in the first place, and it's my
(willing) duty as her mom to protect her and help her work these issues
out. She's only five now.

Thanks for listening to the other side of the coin.

Sue

Sue Fensalir
Fensalir Astrology
s.fensalir@juno.com

Thread:	Why Pay when you can get it on-line free ?
From:	"Megan J. Noel" <"iclea@bga.com"@bga.com>	Date:	Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:38:07 -0400

Dear Ms. Wiggers,

As a professional astrologer, which is not certified, but knows the
depth of her professionalism, I have but one question to ask. If you
value the spiritual teachings of Christ, how is it that you can
place a monetary value on oracles that were directed by such higher
entities - to be used as but a tool in the quest for spiritual direction
? What gives you the right to package them up like some dime-store
8-ball, and mass distribute them on this medium ?

I am angered at people like you, for you show no respect to the
persons responsible for setting the oracles free for all men & women
to use and learn from.

There is NO PRICE for spiritual knowledge, except for the karma you
must pay at the end of your journey. So know this: as you sit here
and gain monetarily in this temporal zone, your debt is rising higher
and higher as time closes the distance of your earthly journey.

Thread:	The querent as seller
From:	treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse)	Date:	Mon, 22 Sep 1997 06:06:43 -0700

Opinions sought on this old favourite:

Where the querent is the purchaser (of, for example, a house) the
application of the significators of the first and seventh or first and
fourth seem to describe the process taking place (coming together of two
entities) but where the question is about a sale is it still the application
of these two significators which denotes success even though, symbollically,
they are parting company?

I look forward to receiving your collective thoughts.

All the best,
Jonathon
Visit the Tree of Life website at:
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~treelife

Thread:	Astronomy
From:	"Carol A. Wiggers" <william_lilly@halcyon.com>	Date:	Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:14:58 +7

you wrote
> Hi Carol,
>
> Thanks for your suggestion. I contacted Fowlers and they told me it was
> out of print as far as they were concerned. My 'book person' looked at
> Barnes & Noble list and couldn't find it there.
>
> Are you able to obtain a copy for me? Alternatively, is there any way I can
> follow it up for myself?
>
Dear Angela,
Let me check for you, I have to go there tonight and I will see if
they have a copy. It's possible that only individual stores carry
it. It's probably easier if I pick you up a copy and drop it in the
mail, if this is OK with you.
Love & Light
Carol
==========================
Carol A. Wiggers,D.M.S.Astrol.
JustUs & Associates Publishing
1420 NW Gilman Blvd. Suite #2154
Issaquah, WA 98027-7001
phone (206)391-8371 fax(206)392-1919
Visit our new secure shopping mall at
http://www.horary.com
Powered by Make-A-Store at http://www.make-a-store.com
cwiggers@halcyon.com

Thread:</