Thread: Liilly's Christian Astrology
From: Deborah Houlding <Deborah_Houlding@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 00:52:25 -0700

Re - CA
>The number could well be much higher. I am aware of 3 additional
copies in the hands of private collectors in the USA. And there could
be quite a few more that we aren't even aware of.<

I also know of someone in Leicester who owns a copy.
Deb



Thread: Liilly's Christian Astrology
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:04:45 -0700
Status: U

At 02:12 PM 4/29/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>> Hi Carol,
>>> How may original copies of Lilly's "Christian Astrology" would you
>>> guess still exist in the world? I own the copy that Evangeline Adams
>>> owned. Just curious.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Norman
>>>
>>Dear Norman,
>>I'm not sure. I have an original First Edition of Christian
>>Astrology, I know that Olivia Barclay has a partial one (book 2 and 3
>>I believe). Those are the only one's I know of.
>>Love & Light
>>Carol
>
>To my uncertain knowledge there are aabout 6 extant. Geoffrey Cornelius has
>one and I believe there might be another lurking in that area, too.
>
>Sue
>The Traditional Horary Course
>sueward@easynet.co.uk
>http://www.horary.com
>
>
>
>
To be mercenary...what would be the value on an original edition? I
recently came across someone selling an original of James Wilson's
"Dictionary of Astrology" and that was going for $400
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Liilly's Christian Astrology
From: sueward@easynet.co.uk Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:13:21 -0700

>> Hi Carol,
>> How may original copies of Lilly's "Christian Astrology" would you
>> guess still exist in the world? I own the copy that Evangeline Adams
>> owned. Just curious.
>> Thanks,
>> Norman
>>
>Dear Norman,
>I'm not sure. I have an original First Edition of Christian
>Astrology, I know that Olivia Barclay has a partial one (book 2 and 3
>I believe). Those are the only one's I know of.
>Love & Light
>Carol

To my uncertain knowledge there are aabout 6 extant. Geoffrey Cornelius has
one and I believe there might be another lurking in that area, too.

Sue
The Traditional Horary Course
sueward@easynet.co.uk
http://www.horary.com



Thread: Liilly's Christian Astrology
From: "J. Lee Lehman" <leephd@ix3.ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:12:50 -0700
Status: U

sueward@easynet.co.uk wrote:

> >> Hi Carol,
> >> How may original copies of Lilly's "Christian Astrology" would you
> >> guess still exist in the world? I own the copy that Evangeline Adams
> >> owned. Just curious.
> >> Thanks,

> To my uncertain knowledge there are aabout 6 extant. Geoffrey Cornelius has
> one and I believe there might be another lurking in that area, too.

The number could well be much higher. I am aware of 3 additional
copies in the hands of private collectors in the USA. And there could
be quite a few more that we aren't even aware of.

---
J. Lee Lehman, Ph.D. (http://www2.netcom.com/~leephd/home.html)
P.O. Box 501107, Malabar FL 32950, USA (leephd@ix.netcom.com)
Phone (407) 728-2277 Fax (407) 728-2244
Horary & Electional Astrology Consultations & Instruction


Thread: Liilly's Christian Astrology
From: nwinski <nwinski@naples.infi.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 21:52:39 -0700

Hi Carol,
How may original copies of Lilly's "Christian Astrology" would you
guess still exist in the world? I own the copy that Evangeline Adams
owned. Just curious.
Thanks,
Norman


Thread: Atlantis 84
From: "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.hcc.nl> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 07:11:11 -0700
Status: U

Though I have been right in predicting that the Columbia 83=20
would not reach its destination, and had,by great exeption
(3 out of more than one hundred) to be called back to earth,=20
this time I =91ll restrict myself ( Mercury Retro) to furnish=20
all of you who are interested with the information I found in=20
the chart of the Atlantis 84 which is to be launched at the=20
15 th of May 1997 at 040500 EDT at Cape Canaveral 0803700 W=20
and 283700 N (AC 05.19 Aries).

The condition of the shuttle is shown by the lord of the=20
1 st house - Mars, placed in the 6 th house (not good),
inconjunct Jupiter,and after a factor of 3.37 sextile with the=20
Pars Fortunae.
This last one is a very good aspect but before that a lot of=20
other things are happening.
Also in the first house is Saturn, in fall,not good for the condition.

Mercury, natural planet of travel in the 1 st house,perigrine,=20
lord of the 3 rd and co-lord of the 6 th square Uranus=20
(space flight)stationnair does not improve the condition either.

Lastly the Moon, as second lord of the shuttle, is very bad
aspected. Together with the Sun and the lord of the first in the
lower half of the chart gives negative results according to Lilly,=20
and the Moon as well as the lord of the first in the 6 th house is=20
not favourable.

The starting place and place of return is the 4 th house; lord is=20
the Moon en in it is placed the PF of which the Moon is dispositor=20
which makes it still more important.
Looking at the aspects of the Moon, the launching will, if executed,=20
cause more tension than usual.

The passage through space is symbolized by the 7 th house, the lord=20
of which is Venus,(also the lord of the 2 nd of accessories)
placed in exact opposition of Pluto in 8, that will be triggered by=20
the Moon at almost the exact moment of the departure !

The lord of the 9 th house of the space flight is Jupiter,
( the good old benefactor), which in this case has just had a square=20
with the Sun with again factor 3.37, and is only aspected by an=20
inconjunct of Mars that according to most astrologers is a sign of danger=
.=20
After that aspect Jupiter is VOC and does not give any protection any mor=
e !
Situated in the last decanate of Aquarius it belongs to Gemini
where Jupiter is in detriment.
Could it be that the flight with a factor of 3.37 will be postponed ?=20

The aim of the voyage is to be seen by the 10 th house of which the=20
lord is Saturn,(in fall) which out of the 1 st house forms an EXACT=20
square with the PF in the 4 th !
This might also indicate that the flight =91ll be postponed c.q. that=20
the aim =91ll not be attained.=20

Finally Uranos, the planet of space flights,is stationnary/retro since=20
the 13 th of May 00.16 hours; maybe the space flights =91ll not have=20
much success for some time.

The last aspect of the Moon with Neptune Retro in the 11 th house
does not give much hope and indicates that changes are to be expected.

Looking at the factor 3.37 of the Sun-Jupiter aspect and particularly=20
to the Mars - Pars Fortunae aspect I would not be surprised if there=20
would be a postponement with that factor of minutes, days, weeks etc.=20

For those who work with the Arabian points : the point of danger=20
is 24.09 Sco opposite the Sun.
For those who work with the Hindoe Mansions of the Moon :
Jupiter stands in a critical degree.

I would appreciate very much if you would critize these observations ! =20

Paul Langeveld.




Thread: HELP
From: JBlack4790@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:04:03 -0700

Am computer illiterate, and would appreciate instructions to go digest with
this mailing list.
Please help me set digest.
With appreciation,
June


Thread: New Book on Horary Astrology
From: TonyLouis@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:05:10 -0700

Just a note to let members of the list know that Carol Wiggers of
JustUs&Associates and the Horary Practitioner has just published my most
recent book on horary astrology, entitled HORARY FOR BEGINNERS. It is an
introductory workbook that covers all the basic concepts of horary with
illustrative examples. I have received several positive responses from
readers who ordered the pre-publication copies. For more information about
this book try, you can go to Web page:

http://members.aol.com/tonylouis/louishfb.htm

Thanks,

Anthony Louis

PS: Please ignore the previous post which had the incorrect Subject (Title)


Thread: To Carol Wiggers re: Anthony Louis' New Book
From: "Options Publishing" <optpub@iafrica.com> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:01:50 -0700

I must have blinked and the original information about the new book on
Horary for Beginners passed me by. How can it be ordered? Also - We are
agent/booksellers in South Africa, and I would be interested in being an
agent for astrology books in this country, if there are any books not
already being distributed here.
Monica
optpub@iafrica.com

----------
> From: TonyLouis@aol.com
> To: william_lilly@halcyon.com
> Subject: To Carol Wiggers re: Anthony Louis' New Book
> Date: 25 April 1997 02:04
>
> <<
> To whom it may concern:
>
> I read Anthony Louis' book on Horary Astrology that was published
several
> years ago. Dr. Louis has a very engagin style, and I would be
interested in
> ordering his new book. I would just like to be certain however that
this
> book is not a reprint of his prior book. Please advise.
>
> Thank you. >>
>
> Carol,
>
> Just wanted to clarify for members of the list that Horary for Beginners
is a
> new book, not a re-issuing of the 1991 book published by Llewellyn. The
new
> book is briefer and is aimed at beginners. It offers many new charts and
is
> more of the nature of a workbook that illustrates the basic concepts.
>
> Hope this clarifies any confusion.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Tony Louis
>
> ---------------------
> Forwarded message:
> From: william_lilly@halcyon.com (Carol A. Wiggers)
> Reply-to: cwiggers@halcyon.com
> To: TonyLouis@aol.com
> Date: 97-04-23 15:41:51 EDT
>
> Tony,
> Can you take care of answering this letter and tell them about the
> book. I've run into some problems here and have to get them
> straightened out.
> Thanks
> Carol
>
> ------ Forwarded Message Follows -------
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:01:29 -0400 (EDT)
> From: SoBeLawyer@aol.com
> To: cwiggers@halcyon.com
> Subject: Anthony Louis' Book
>
> To whom it may concern:
>
> I read Anthony Louis' book on Horary Astrology that was published several
> years ago. Dr. Louis has a very engagin style, and I would be interested
in
> ordering his new book. I would just like to be certain however that this
> book is not a reprint of his prior book. Please advise.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ==========================
> Carol A. Wiggers,D.M.S.Astrol.
> JustUs & Associates Publishing
> Visit our new secure shopping mall at
> http://www.horary.com
> Powered by Make-A-Store at http://www.make-a-store.com
>
>


Thread: To Carol Wiggers re: Anthony Louis' New Book
From: TonyLouis@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:04:37 -0700

<<
To whom it may concern:

I read Anthony Louis' book on Horary Astrology that was published several
years ago. Dr. Louis has a very engagin style, and I would be interested in
ordering his new book. I would just like to be certain however that this
book is not a reprint of his prior book. Please advise.

Thank you. >>

Carol,

Just wanted to clarify for members of the list that Horary for Beginners is a
new book, not a re-issuing of the 1991 book published by Llewellyn. The new
book is briefer and is aimed at beginners. It offers many new charts and is
more of the nature of a workbook that illustrates the basic concepts.

Hope this clarifies any confusion.

Best Wishes,

Tony Louis

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: william_lilly@halcyon.com (Carol A. Wiggers)
Reply-to: cwiggers@halcyon.com
To: TonyLouis@aol.com
Date: 97-04-23 15:41:51 EDT

Tony,
Can you take care of answering this letter and tell them about the
book. I've run into some problems here and have to get them
straightened out.
Thanks
Carol

------ Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:01:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: SoBeLawyer@aol.com
To: cwiggers@halcyon.com
Subject: Anthony Louis' Book

To whom it may concern:

I read Anthony Louis' book on Horary Astrology that was published several
years ago. Dr. Louis has a very engagin style, and I would be interested in
ordering his new book. I would just like to be certain however that this
book is not a reprint of his prior book. Please advise.

Thank you.

==========================
Carol A. Wiggers,D.M.S.Astrol.
JustUs & Associates Publishing
Visit our new secure shopping mall at
http://www.horary.com
Powered by Make-A-Store at http://www.make-a-store.com



Thread: Tony Louis new book
From: aikido@juno.com (Sue Miller) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:43:48 -0700

Dear Lilly Listers:

I hope you have all ordered "Horary for Beginners", Anthony Louis' new
book. It is a most wonderful handbook and offers full support for those
of us who are doing our lessons. It states that is for beginners, but I
have learned from many years study in several lifetime subjects that is
the most advanced state of mind that recognizes we are all beginners.

It is not simplistic, neither is it ponderous. It is complete in its
scope, even offering sample readings for insight.

I cannot say enough about this new offering. It is even spiral bound for
easy use. He did everything right. Thank you Tony LouisXXXXXXX

Sue Miller
aikido@juno.com


Thread: Update mailinglists
From: tees.reitsma@astronet.idn.nl (Tees Reitsma) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:05:35 -0700

The following international Newsgroups, Mailinglists and Newsletters for
astrology are now free of charge available via email:

USENET NEWSGROUPS
=================

"alt.astrology" - born July 29, 1991, 18:22:38 AEST (08:22:38 GMT),
Sydney, Australia (33S52 151E13)

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19:14:54 MET, Tuebingen, Germany (48N31 09E02)

"alt.jyotish" - born Jan. 5, 1995 21:28:33 GMT, Honolulu, Hawaii,
USA (21N19 157W52).

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USA (33N50 117W54).

"alt.astrology.marketplace" - born June 28, 1996, 09:17:30 pm PDT
(04:17:30 GMT June 29), San Diego, CA, USA
(32N43 117W09).
For astrological ADVERTISING!

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La Jolla, CA, USA (32N51 117W16)

NOTE: (The "International Congress Agenda" is posted
==== every weekend to most of these newsgroups)

MAILINGLISTS
============

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(74W09, 42N02), U.S.A. To subscribe send Email
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To subscribe send Email to: twostar@idirect.com
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end

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Love,
Tees
---
--- Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E T2
---


Thread: (no subject)
From: Allisen Waage <pookz@brainerdonline.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:29:03 -0700

subscribe


Thread: IOndian burned
From: harresac@compuland.com.br (Antonio Carlos Siqueira Harres) (by way of Dorothy and Alexander Kovach <harresac@compuland.com.br>) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:02:00 -0700

Hello
Here is Antonio, the brazilian Astrologer.
I think most of you heard about an indian
who was killed burned by five teen agers
in Brasilia, the capital of Brazil.
The teen agers used alcool and they said
they only wanted to scared the man who
was asleep in a bus stop. He was lost
in the city after a party in FUNAI
- the Brazilian authority for indians
affairs - for the indian's day.
They put fire in the indian at 04:45 am
20/04/1997 in Brasilia - +3 - BZT - 15s47/
47w54.
In 15/06/1556 a priest was killed by
the same tribe and he was eated by the
indians. Since we don't know at what
hour it happened, It is possible sometime
around noon. Look at the position of the moon in
both charts.
I am looking for the charts of kidnapped people
to send you.

Best wishes
harresac





Thread: Missing girl
From: RG4invirgo@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:03:07 -0700

Just got email on missing girl she is safe and sound the Moon was at 20 Libra
when I recieved the new just a degree 2 degree's after exact aspect to
Jupiter and Jupiter is the Almuten of the first House. Thanks RG


Thread: Fwd: missing girl
From: RG4invirgo@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:12:30 -0700

re: please email Ragmanz
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Fwd: missing girl
Date: 97-04-21 13:33:14 EDT
From: RG4invirgo
To: william_lilly@ha

Hi ,
I recieved this ask for help 10:30 edt New Port Richey Fl. I have done a
chart but will refer this to more experienced Horary Astrologer for I am in
the process of taking a horary course. The chart I have has the Moon as the
ruler of the acendant in the 4th C.A. page151 "or if the Lord of the eighth
be posited in the Ascendant, or if the Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon be
placed in the 4th, these are testimonies the party absent is dead." The Lord
of the eighth is Saturn, the Moon ruler of the Ascendant is in Opposition
Seperated Sinister C.A. page 151 "if the Lord of the Ascendant be seperated
from a bad aspect" "If from the Lord of the eight, he hath been in danger of
death, but is not dead;" The Moon then applies to a sinister aspect to
Jupiter in the 8th and jupiter always takes the malice off of Saturn. I will
end with this C.A. 151.152 "Now if you find the absent alive, and you would
know, when happily you may hear of him; see in your Ephemeris when the Lord
of the eleventh and Lord of the Ascendant come to a Trine or Sextile aspect,
and about that time, if not that day, newes will be had of him; or if the
Moon apply to a sextile or trine of the Lord of the Ascendant, see how many
degrees she wants of the Aspect, and give dayes, weeks or month, viz. for
every degree" The moon won't reach a trine to Venus Ruler of the 11th untill
24th or 25th of May. Please this is only my attempt at this question like I
said I'm still Learning Please those of you who are more experience please
email Ragmanz thank you for your time.
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: missing girl
Date: 97-04-21 11:25:39 EDT
From: RagmanZ
To: RG4invirgo

Hi, a friend just called at 10.02 am in cincinnati, Ohio to say that her
teenage daughter has been missing since 4/20/1997 8 pm last seen at
McDonalds. Any help would be appreciated. e-mail at RagmanZ. thanks


Thread: Anthony Michael Martinez
From: Dorothy and Alexander Kovach <dstar@mcn.org> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:25:19 -0700
Status: U

Anthony Martinez's partially buried body is said to have been found, in the
rugged, Indio Hills near Interstate 10 in the California desert, some 70
miles east of where he was taken. This is what I have so far pieced
together, in hindsight from the abduction chart. Any thing you listers out
there see, please let me know, this way we will learn so maybe the next
child will have more hope of recovery. Anthony's ruler Venus, along with
the Sun and ruler of the 4th, Saturn are in Aries - all point east (CA365).
Capricorn is on the cusp of the 4th, earth, he was found at ground level,
and describes the bleak desert terrain in which he was found. Moveable,
denotes the hills.

I see the Moon in Pisces as describing the where the kidnapper is. The Moon
in Pisces, points northwest. Antonio suggested the killer might be near a
pier. There is a pier Longbeach, Ca. The general description of the city of
LongBeach is industrial. Maybe the murderer is in this vicinity. Antonio
said,"Maybe the man works in the docks." I venture, that maybe he is a
sailer, or a merchant marine or a former seaman, Lilly said the ruler of 7th
in the 12th, "a stranger...hath no riches; wherefore he hath visited many
regions"(CA344). Mar's placement on the antiscion of Saturn, besides making
him cruel could also indicate that the murderer's profession could be
technical in nature; which again agrees with Antonio's. The Moon is opposing
the murder's significator Mars, he acts against himself, maybe a sign that
he will turn himself in? William Lilly says that the Moon placed in the 6th
house is an indication that the abductor will be captured. I will guess that
the murderer will be found, when Mars comes to the ascendent of the
abduction chart, around June 20th or there abouts. I am very interested in
any and all insights that fellow listers might have regarding the
whereabouts of the murderer.

I think Traditional Horary can be invaluble in finding missing people. Thank
you, again, Antonio and Helen for your information in this abduction.

Dorothy J. Kovach
dstar@mcn.org

anthony martinez LS - natal
>>> 04 Apr 1997
>>> 5.00 P.M. (8)
>>> 116.58 WEST
>>> 33.56 NORTH
>>> 06H 05M 38S
>>> Regiomontanus
>>> 05 LEO 01 CAN 26 TAU
>
>>> * * *
>
>>> *
>
>>> * * *
>
>>> 05 VIR * 27 ARI
>
>>> * * * * *
>
>>> * PF27Leo * ME04Tau *
>
>>> MA20Vir R * * * * *
>
>>> NN28Vir * * *
>
>>> * * ** * ** * * VE15Ari
>
>>> * * SU15Ari
>
>>> * * SA10Ari
>
>>> 01 LIB ****************** ******************* 01 ARI
>
>>> * *
>
>>> * *
>
>>> * * ** * ** * *
>
>>> * * * SN28Pis
>
>>> * *PL05Sag* * * MO11Pis
>
>>> * * *
>
>>> * * * NE29Cpr * *
>
>>> 27 LIB * 05 PIS
>
>>> P/Death * * JU15Aqu
>
>>> 16Sco * UR08Aqu
>>
>>> * * *
>
>>> 26 SCO 01 CPR 05 AQU
>
>>>
>>
>Hi,I am a brazilian astrologer.
>In the past I have few experiences with kidnaped people.
>I have a suggestion about Mars in Virgo.
>It could mean that Anthony was taked to a pier, a place
>in the docks, in land, may be a kind of place full of machines, in the
>port. May be the man works in the docks, he works with motors. Or in a
>deposit of old machines or broken and old cars.
>Since Venus and Sol are in a good and almost exact aspect with Jupiter,
>it could be a signal of protection.
>
>Antonio Harres
>harresac@compuland.com.br
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>



Thread: Missing 12 y.o. girl
From: TonyLouis@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:48:25 -0700
Status: U

Dear fellow Lilly-listers,

I came across a plea for help from the family of a missing girl in Texas at
site:
http://www.friendswoodinfo.com/

I cast a chart for 9 a.m. CST 4/3/97 95W15, 29N26. It has 6 Gemini rising,
19 Aquarius MC, Moon VOC at 21 Aquarius, Mercury in the 12th at 2 Taurus 41,
and Pluto conjunct the DSC. My reading of the chart is that the girl was
kidnapped by a man in his 30s or 40s with a criminal background, possibly a
sex offender. Others might be interested in looking at this chart.

Details from the Web page are as follows:

Reward: $50,000 Missing Child - Texas
Laura Smither - a 12 year old girl
last seen: Friendswood, Alvin- TEXAS
area off Moore Road and Ware Dairy Road
jogging, around 9 AM April 3,1997

Physical Description:
5'3"
98 pounds (44.5Kg)
Braces
Fair Complexion
Long Curly Hair - Dark Brown
Green Eyes
Clothing Description:
(Last Seen Wearing)
T-Shirt - Black
Shorts - Dark Blue
Shoes - White Running
Friendswood Police: Case #97-304
Friendswood Police: (281) 482 8061
Please call (281) 482 8061
If you have any information to help find her

Parents e-mail address is: netquest@neosoft.com


Thread: Anthony Michael Martinez
From: Dorothy and Alexander Kovach <dstar@mcn.org> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:44:57 -0700

I am forwarding this post that Helen Kelly kindly sent.

>Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:29:03 -0700
>From: Helen Kelly <astrologic@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: astrologic@earthlink.net
>To: Dorothy and Alexander Kovach <dstar@mcn.org>
>Subject: Re: Anthony Michael Martinez
>References: <199704161839.LAA19501@dns1.mcn.org>
>
>Dear List Members
> I am sorry to report that a body has been found in the desert at around
>2:00PM PDT (I am not sure of the exact time), and it appears to be
>Anthony. The police are saying the body's arms & legs were taped, and
>we must pray for this poor child's soul ( and all children who suffer at
>the hands of predators).
> Will post more info as I find it.
> Sadly,
> Helen
>
>



Thread: Anthony Michael Martinez
From: Dorothy and Alexander Kovach <dstar@mcn.org> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:59:37 -0700
Status: U

>Dear Antonio,
>
>Thank you, ever so much, for sharing your very descriptive insights on Mars
in Virgo as representing the kidnapper of Anthony Martinez. I always am
grateful for what others see in charts. And thank you reminding me that
there is something optimistic in that chart. I interpreted the partile
sextile between Anthony's ruler, Venus and Jupiter, as more protection in
death, like he would go quickly and painlessly from this plane. I would
love it if you would share some of your kidnapping charts with us. Thank you
again.
>
>Very Fondly,
>Dorothy J. Kovach
>dstar@mcn.org
>
>At 08:42 PM 4/17/97 -0300, you wrote:
>>>>Anthony Martinez was snatched at knifepoint at approximately 5:00pm (PST 8)
>>>on April 4th, 1997, from Beaumont, CA USA 116n58, 33n56. ASC 1LIB11, MC
>>>1CAN18. a. You can see a picture of Anthony and a drawing of the
abductor at:
>>>>>http://www.pollyklaas.org/martinez.htm
>>
>>>Hi,I am a brazilian astrologer.
>>In the past I have few experiences with kidnaped people.
>>I have a suggestion about Mars in Virgo.
>>It could mean that Anthony was taked to a pier, a place
>>in the docks, in land, may be a kind of place full of machines, in the
>>port. May be the man works in the docks, he works with motors. Or in a
>>deposit of old machines or broken and old cars.
>>Since Venus and Sol are in a good and almost exact aspect with Jupiter,
>>it could be a signal of protection.
>>
>>Antonio Harres
>>harresac@compuland.com.br
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>



Thread: (Fwd) News items
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 15:03:42 -0700

At 02:00 PM 4/17/97 -8, you wrote:
>Resent at Angela's Request
>
>------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 06:09:41 EDT
>From: "Angela Reeve UK(UTC +01:00)"
<angy@e-mail.com>
>To: william_lilly@halcyon.com
>Subject: News items
>
>Nothing to do with the heading at all, just need to use the 'return'
facility.
>I did send this thru before, so apols if anyone receives a repeat posting,

>however, in case it was a victim of rogue computerism I'm resending.

>
>A question that has often perplexed me in the past and I would be most
grateful
> for any insight - Mercury is seen as being quite 'amorphous' in terms of

>taking on the flavour of whichever planet it is associating with, somewhat
like
> blotting paper. This being the case, when it comes to judging whether or
not
>a chart is radical with regard to the Lord of the Hour concurring with the
Lord
> of the Ascendant, if Mercury is one or other of said Lords, does this

>mutability mean that Mercury will concur with whatever the partnering
planet
>is, because of his adaptability?

>
>Interested

>Angela

>
>
>==================================
>William Lilly Mailing List william_lilly@halcyon.com
>privately owned and brought to you by-
>JustUs & Associates
>Traditional Astrological publications, courses,
>software and horary consultations, William Lilly Christian Astrology,
>Coley, Ramsesy, Gadbury, and many more books available.
>No fascimile copies, these books are all retyped and republished in modern
print.
>Carol A. Wiggers, DMSAstrol. cwiggers@halcyon.com
>horary_astrology@compuserve.com
>http://www.horary.com OnLine Shopping Mall
>
>

My understanding is that Mercury takes on the gender characteristics
of the sign it is in. Masculine in Aries, feminine in Taurus, etc. At least
it does in a horary chart, wherein you are looking for descriptions of
individuals. A Mercury significator in a feminine sign would be a woman,
masculine a man.
As for judging a chart radical by concurrence of the Lords, I don't
know how workable that stricture is. Most of the strictures against
judgement are signposts of trouble ahead for the person reading the chart.
It's saying that in someway, your ability to judge is clouded.
For example, I have found in the Saturn ruling or in the 7th
stricture, definite indicators of problems. With Capricorn on the 7th, I
always find a mistake in the calculating of the chart, with wrong time or
wrong location types of problems. Most times, when you calculate with the
right info, that Capricorn 7th changes.
With Saturn in the 7th, most often I find that the astrologer is
going under a wrong assumption of the situation. Usually the quereant is
not being totally forthright about the question they asked and are trying to
shade the question in a way that will give them the answer they want, rather
than a true picture of the situation. Someone may ask "who stole the
money?" and you will get a Saturn in the 7th, because they are the one that
stole it and they are hoping to put the blame on someone else.
In short, every chart is radical and the strictures are there to
tell you not to go into it with preconceived notions of the facts. Because
you don't have them. It is professionally ethical to refuse to read the
chart for someone when the strictures appear, but they don't not mean that
it is unreadable, just that you are not able to read it with the information
given.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Tony Louis is missing!
From: Linda Reid <canopus@tassie.net.au> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 16:05:34 -0700

At 13:24 21/03/97 +0100, P. Langeveld wrote:
>Hello Linda,
>snip<
>>
>Coming back to your question I made the chart of the moment you asked
>yourself the question with the AC of 11 Aries 23 and I think it is clear
>that there is no thief.
>The book is outside your house maybe in a garage or some building like that.
>
>Sun and Moon are in the top of the chart in good aspect so it 'll be back
>in any case, possibly when the lord of the AC (Mars) makes a good aspect with
>the book (Venus).
>
>That would be the 28 th of April when Mars is goiing direct at 16.44 Virgo
>and the next day Venus makes a nice trine with Mars.
>
>It is still a long time to go and I sincerely hope that you 'll find it earlier
>but looking at it astrologically it would be then.
>
>Should like to hear from you what you think of this solution.
>
>
Hi All and Paul in particular,

At 1600 hrs ( 2 hours 5 minutes after Mercury went Retrograde) on Monday
14th April a friend living in Hobart phoned for a chat. After we'd been
talking for a while she said she had lost a book which she had borrowed from
an associate. She had set up a horary chart the day before and together we
interpeted the message, concluding that it might be near her fireplace,
where her bookcase is, but that it might be concealed, falling down behind
it. I asked her if she had a pile of old newspapers there - Mercury
stationary in her horary chart and she said yes, she did, she stored them to
use to light the fire. I suggested she might look under the pile of papers
and as we spoke said - look now - she came back to the phone seconds later,
at 16.44 pm and said no, Gary's book was not there, but "Your Anthony Louis
book is". So the book is finally found - in the apartment of a friend,
under a pile of newspaper ( how ignoble ). I might add I still haven't got
my hands on the book but will be going to Hobart in a couple of weeks so am
likely to have it before the month is out. ( probably as Paul says, around
the 28th)

For anyone who is interested in hindsight - always a good way to confirm
things - the original question 'Where is my Book' was asked on 5th March
1997 at 9.24 AEDT ( 11 hours East) at Wynyard 40S59 145E41. The chart has
11 Ar23 on the Asc; 13Cap15 MC. Venus, ruler of the second and
Mercury ruler of the 3rd ( books?) are conjunct and under beams in the 11th.
Apart from a sextile from Moon to Sun there are no major aspects from the
two planets. Venus also rules the 7th. There really was no mystery,
Christine had asked me to lend her the book - I had indeed posted it to her
- and then completely forgot that it ever happened despite spending hours
trying to remember who I might have lent it to. Does the chart show memory
loss I wonder? Saturn on the Asc maybe?

Linda

Canopus Enterprises Pty Ltd.
Principal:Matrix School of Astrology.
Editor: The Southern Astrologer.
Author: "Crossing the Threshold
- the Astrology of Dreaming" Penguin/Arkana 1997
" Step By Step " Student Series Canopus Publishing





Thread: Original letter 5 th of April re:Columbia
From: sueward@easynet.co.uk Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:38:02 -0700

>Return-Path: <Langeveld.P@net.HCC.nl>
>Delivered-To: sueward@easynet.co.uk
>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:41:20 +0200
>From: "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.HCC.nl>
>To: "sueward@easynet.co.uk" <sueward@easynet.co.uk>
>Subject: original letter 5 th of April re:Columbia
>
>Dear Sue,
>At last I herebye succeded (I hope) in sending you the original
>letter of the 5 th of April re: Columbia 83.
>As nobody has had the possibility up till now to read it and
>because I think that maybe some would like that, I hope that
>you will post it to everybody, for which I thank you very much.
>

>With kind regards,
>Paul
>
>
>Subject:
> Columbia 83
> Resent-Date:
> Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:27:59 -8
>Resent-From:
> "Carol A. Wiggers" <william_lilly@halcyon.com>
> Resent-To:
> "Members" <william_lilly@halcyon.com>
> Date:
> Sat, 05 Apr 1997 15:32:30 +0100
> From:
> "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.HCC.nl>
> To:
> "sueward@easynet.co.uk" <sueward@easynet.co.uk>
> CC:
> Members <william_lilly@halcyon.com>
>
>
>Hallo All,
>
> Some of you maybe remember my wrong interpretation of the opposition
> of Mars/Saturn in the horary of the moment of launching the Discovery 82
> on the 11th of Feb. 1997 in the houses 3 and 9, by which I thought that
> this could not go right.
> These planets were both weak by sign however and Mercury, the lord of
> the 9 th in good aspect with Jupiter made the launch succesfull.
>
> With this lesson in mind I looked at the chart of the launching of the
> Columbia 83 that would take place on 03/04/1997 at 14.01 EST (19.01 GMT)
> at Cape Kennedy (080W37 and 28N37) AC 13.44 Leo, MC 9.10 Taurus.
>
> Here it was the reverse, i.e. the Sun, lord of the first house, together
> with Venus and Saturnus in 9, well aspected by Jupiter gave the impression
> that everything would turn out right, but, because the lord of the 9 th and
> the 4 th, Mars, standing Retro in the 2 and Mercury in the 9 th square
> Uranus in 6, I thought that postponement could be expected.
>
> And, as all of you know, there was first a 24 hour delay and the new chart
> beiing practically the same, except the Moon now in Pisces, which in human
> relations is OK, but in connection with exact sciences no improvement, I
> again did not exclude that there could be an other delay, which in this case
> indeed was 20 minutes !
>
> So far so good, but how 'll it go further on ?
> I wonder if the end of the voyage will be attained because the lord of
> the 10 th house (the object): Venus, is in the same degree of the Sun and
> totally burned in the 9 th;
> Mars, lord of the 9 th Retro in the 2 gives IMHO an indication that the
> nesserary material of the shuttle is not up to date.
> As it has been announced that many trials will be made in making fires, Mars
> (fire) being Retro might indicate that is a shortage of matches.
>
> Finally Mercury square Uranus could cause a bad communication or difficulties
> with blood-pressure of (one of) the astronauts. (Mercury beiing lord of the
> 6 th of the 6th house)
>
> Appreciate to hear your views !
>
> Paul Langeveld
>
> P.S. The bad communication aspect could also turn out to be the fact that
> information about happenings on board c.q. results (not) obtained, will
> not be rendered by the government.
>
>
The Traditional Horary Course
sueward@easynet.co.uk
http://www.horary.com



Thread: Anthony Michael Martinez
From: Dorothy and Alexander Kovach <dstar@mcn.org> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:39:42 -0700

>Anthony Martinez was snatched at knifepoint at approximately 5:00pm (PST 8)
on April 4th, 1997, from Beaumont, CA USA 116n58, 33n56. ASC 1LIB11, MC
1CAN18. The state of California has announced a $50,000 reward for
information leading to locating Anthony and the arrest and conviction of
abductor. You can see a picture of Anthony and a drawing of the abductor at:
>>http://www.pollyklaas.org/martinez.htm
>
> anthony martinez LS - natal
> 04 Apr 1997
> 5.00 P.M. (8)
> 116.58 WEST
> 33.56 NORTH
> 06H 05M 38S
> Regiomontanus
> 05 LEO 01 CAN 26 TAU
> * * *
> *
> * * *
> 05 VIR * 27 ARI
> * * * * *
> * PF27Leo * ME04Tau *
> MA20Vir R * * * * *
> NN28Vir * * *
> * * ** * ** * * VE15Ari
> * * SU15Ari
> * * SA10Ari
> 01 LIB ****************** ******************* 01 ARI
> * *
> * *
> * * ** * ** * *
> * * * SN28Pis
> * *PL05Sag* * * MO11Pis
> * * *
> * * * NE29Cpr * *
> 27 LIB * 05 PIS
> P/Death * * JU15Aqu
> 16Sco * UR08Aqu

> * * *
> 26 SCO 01 CPR 05 AQU
>
>
>
>>Abductee information:
>>
>> Date Missing: 4/4/97 Circumstances: Tony was playing with
>> Date of Birth: 12/9/86 friends in the yard of his home in
>> Height: 4'10" Beaumont, California when a man
>> Weight: 70 lbs. (description to follow) came up and
>> Hair: Black, short tried to lure the kids with a kitten
>> Eyes: Brown story. They all declined. Suspect
>> Race: Hispanic then pulled out a knife and grabbed
>> Sex: Male Anthony. They were last seen in a
>> Other: Burn mark on right side of mid-size white 4 wheel drive vehicle
>> back. He was wearing a blue cap, with red pin-strips and no hub caps.
>> blue & white t-shirt, light blue Current style California license
>> jeans, and black Nike tennis shoes. plates are on car.
>>
>>Abductor information:
>>
>> Suspect description: Sex-Male, Race:
>> White, Height: 5' 8" , Wears a
>> [Image] mustache, and has a thin build. Age:
>> 25 - 35, Eye color: blue, Clothing:
>> Black & red plaid shirt and blue
>> jeans.
>>
>Libra rises in the abduction chart with ruler Venus, combust, in detriment
and emplaced in the 7th house of enemies. The suddeness of the abduction is
indicated by the Moon's opposition to the retrograde Mars(CA406). Mercury
the natural ruler of children is in the 8th. Further, the abductor's ruler,
Mars is also the ruler of the 8th and is on the antiscion of Saturn. The
abductor is a very cruel man. I shudder to think of what has become of
Anthony. The Moon is moving towards opposition to Mars from the 6th. The
Moon, shows activity, will trine the part of death, then oppose Mars,
sextile Neptune in the 4th of the grave, and then conjoins the Dragon's
Tail. Anybody out there see hope for finding Anthony? Any guesses as to
where and if Anthony will be found? Will the abductor be caught?




Thread: Another House purchase question
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:18:57 -0700

At 04:46 AM 4/14/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Miriam wrote:
>
>>Another point. In choosing which home to build, would I use 4th for the
>first home option, 4th from 4th for the second etc. or is the 4th the
>existing home?<
>
>If you want to use horary to help you on this, then you need to be
>absolutely sure in your mind what you are asking before you draw up the
>chart. If necessary you should simplify your understanding of the chart by
>keeping your question as uncomplicated as possible. If your question is
>specifiaclly about your new home then you need only take the 4th house and
>its ruler and there won't be any confusion as the whole chart will relate
>to this issue.
>
>Best wishes,
>Deb
>
>
>
Considering that this would be an Election and not a Horary chart, you
wouldn't be looking at terms of first homeor second home. The election
would be for the purchase of a singular property and no other house would
come into the picture. (Unless you were selling AND buying at the smae time).
The 4th rules the actual ground on which the home stands. You would
judge the chart for the closing time as if it were a birth chart for that
home. (which in regards to it being "your house", it is.) You would
fortify the chart in regards to the influences you wanted to gain from that
home. 2nd for income, 3rd for neighbors, etc.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Retrogrades
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:18:54 -0700

At 08:52 PM 4/14/97 -0700, you wrote:
>John Reder wrote:
>>
>> At 05:13 PM 4/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> >At 07:20 PM 4/13/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> >>At 06:40 AM 4/13/97 +0000, John Reder wrote:
>> >> If the "shadow" theory held water and you thought about it in terms
>> >>>of Neptune or Pluto, then the retrograde and "shadow" periods would
last for
>> >>>9 or 10 months a year.
>> >
>> >The longest retrograde period is no more than 6 months.
>> >
>> >Sincerely,
>> >Curt Manwaring
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> The point being discussed was not the length of the retrograde
>> period itself, but that the retrograde influence extended to the point where
>> the retrograde began.
>> For example, if a planet went retrograde at 1 degree of Libra and
>> turned direct again at 1 degree of Virgo, the supposition was that the
>> retrograde influence would remain until it again reached 1 degree of Libra.
>> _\|/_
>> (o o)
>> -----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
>> John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)
>
>Hi John,
>
> Interesting supposition. Although the planet is going over old
>ground once it hits the i.e. 1 degree Virgo and starts going direct
>again it is surely taking a somewhat different `viewpoint'. First of all
>in that it is in a forward moving direction - mentality, action etc. and
>is also now making different contacts, mundane and natally, to when it
>first went direct over these degrees before going back to have
>a `rethink' before going direct again. Hope I explained that point of
>view clearly? Well it seems clear to me - hope it is to you?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Patricia
>pathuk@itl.net
>
>
I agree. I think there might have been some confusion here, between
effects on transits to planets in a natal horoscope and actual mundane
influences.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Retrogrades
From: CURT MANWARING <chiron@servtech.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 04:24:53 -0700


> The point being discussed was not the length of the retrograde
>period itself, but that the retrograde influence extended to the point where
>the retrograde began.
> For example, if a planet went retrograde at 1 degree of Libra and
>turned direct again at 1 degree of Virgo, the supposition was that the
>retrograde influence would remain until it again reached 1 degree of Libra.

Sorry. I came into the middle of this discussion.

Sincerely,
Curt Manwaring



Thread: Another House purchase question
From: Deborah Houlding <Deborah_Houlding@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 01:48:01 -0700

Miriam wrote:

>Another point. In choosing which home to build, would I use 4th for the
first home option, 4th from 4th for the second etc. or is the 4th the
existing home?<

If you want to use horary to help you on this, then you need to be
absolutely sure in your mind what you are asking before you draw up the
chart. If necessary you should simplify your understanding of the chart by
keeping your question as uncomplicated as possible. If your question is
specifiaclly about your new home then you need only take the 4th house and
its ruler and there won't be any confusion as the whole chart will relate
to this issue.

Best wishes,
Deb


Thread: Another House purchase question
From: Miriam Laister <cosmic@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:15:51 -0700

Hello listers,

My name is Miriam Laister and I have been listening in for a couple of
weeks. I am a practising astrologer here in Adelaide, South Australia.

The house purchase question is strongly on my mind at present as we are in
the throes of selling our house and building an new one. The dilemma is
this. There are several option for the new home. By the end of the week all
quotes should be in and we can begin to make choices. Normally I would not
dream of signing until after the retrogrades of Mars and Mercury. However
our government is currently running a scheme whearas anyong signing a
contract to build a new home gets a $5,000 grant from them. This currently
scheme runs until the end of the month, although it may continue. I can
avoid the Mars retro period, but not the Mercury, unless we forfeit the $5,000.

Another point. In choosing which home to build, would I use 4th for the
first home option, 4th from 4th for the second etc. or is the 4th the
existing home?

Love from over here,
Miriam
--
"We stood at last beyond the Gold Gate. Masters of Time and Fate, and knew
the song that Sun and Stars were singing."
Miriam Laister - THE COSMIC EXPERIENCE astrology newsletter - GEMINI TAPES
astrology lectures on tape.



Thread: Retrogrades
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:36:17 -0700

At 05:13 PM 4/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 07:20 PM 4/13/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>At 06:40 AM 4/13/97 +0000, John Reder wrote:
>> If the "shadow" theory held water and you thought about it in terms
>>>of Neptune or Pluto, then the retrograde and "shadow" periods would last for
>>>9 or 10 months a year.
>
>The longest retrograde period is no more than 6 months.
>
>Sincerely,
>Curt Manwaring
>
>
>
>
The point being discussed was not the length of the retrograde
period itself, but that the retrograde influence extended to the point where
the retrograde began.
For example, if a planet went retrograde at 1 degree of Libra and
turned direct again at 1 degree of Virgo, the supposition was that the
retrograde influence would remain until it again reached 1 degree of Libra.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Retrogrades
From: CURT MANWARING <chiron@servtech.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:14:00 -0700

At 07:20 PM 4/13/97 +0000, you wrote:
>At 06:40 AM 4/13/97 +0000, John Reder wrote:
> If the "shadow" theory held water and you thought about it in terms
>>of Neptune or Pluto, then the retrograde and "shadow" periods would last for
>>9 or 10 months a year.

The longest retrograde period is no more than 6 months.

Sincerely,
Curt Manwaring



Thread: House purchase question
From: Julienne <zjulienne@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:21:29 -0700

At 06:40 AM 4/13/97 +0000, John Reder wrote:
If the "shadow" theory held water and you thought about it in terms
>of Neptune or Pluto, then the retrograde and "shadow" periods would last for
>9 or 10 months a year.

Don't they? I think they absolutely do.

It's like breaking your leg. Maybe you break it the day t. Mars squares your
natal Uranus - but you spend the next year healing the bones, getting over
the pain, etc.

Same with Neptune and Pluto - there is such a long recuperation period with
these planets. One is never what one was before their transits, and there is
a long "shadow" or healing or adjustment period, call it what one will.

Julienne



Thread: Dutch girl missing/dead - Paul Langeveld's chart
From: "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.hcc.nl> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:20:38 -0700

Dear Jonathan,

Thanks very much for the extended description of the way you explained the
chart of poor Nicole in the Lilly method.
Up till now I used all the time the current method of making use of the
post Saturnal planets as well, but after the chart of the money of Mercks
I am inclined to look also from now on into your way of interpreting, because
of the result !

I must say that I am still shocked that in this case the result is
exactly the reverse !
I have never experienced that in my life !

In general, two astrologers, using different methodes are coming up with
the same answer to the question.
I have a friend e.g. who uses Koch instead of Placidus with horary and I
use only Placidus and still we get the same answer, even using sometimes
different lords !

You 'll agree however that the 100 % right way of practising astrology
has not been found up till this very moment. Alas !
And as long as that way has not been found we cannot prove anything to
scientists.
And IMHO it is not right to condemn any astrologer who persists in using
a different system, because who knows, it one time may prove to be the right
one for a certain part !

Take e.g. the method of taking the lord of a missing person.
Lilly and Louis take the first and by my knowledge practically everybody
else takes the seventh, which in my option seems right because there is
always the questioner !

Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse wrote:

> The Moon now applies to a sextile with Venus, ruler of the fourth of the
> grave, again in signs of long ascension which make the aspect equivalent to
> a square.

This method is absolutely incomprehensible to me.

> Saturn, natural ruler of death, ruler of the seventh house of attackers and
> the eighth of death connects to the fourth of the grave by casting its
> antiscion degree to 11 degrees five minutes Libra conjunct the IC.

Sorry again, but I do not think this method 'll ever take part in the ultimate kind of
astrology still to be invented.

It is clear therefore that there are many ways to Rome.
In Holland there are two famous astrologers who publish monthly's.
One of them uses his own system minus one; i.e. in progressions he subtracs
one year of the normal way of one day for a year and has great results.
The other one uses his own 4 2/7 system which he derived from the 84 years
voyage of Uranus and especially in mundane astrology he gets fine results !

Finally I think that we must keep trying to come to a system that works
all the time, should that exist anyhow, and learn from each other by
trying different systems simultaneously.

Hope you'll agree with me there and thank you again.

Paul.

> Paul Langeveld wrote :
> >On the night of the 19 th of October 1995 for instance I was looking
> >at TV when we were told that a certain girl named Nicole was missing.
> >Because I was somehow moved I noted the time at 23.27 MET at my
> >village Aagtdorp in Holland :004E42 and 52 N41. AC 04.14 Leo -
> >MC 10.12 Aries.
> >
> >The lord of the 7 th house was Saturn, and Uranus conjunct Neptune in
> >her 12 th in exact square with the Sun, lord of her 8 th house.
> >The end of the matter was Mars conjunct Pluto in her 11 th house so at
> >first I thought of murder and rape by friends.
> >Later I heard that her step-brother had often troubled her and then I
> >saw that her 11 th house was also the house of her step-brother.
> >(The 5 th of the 10 th of the 10 th)
> >
> >Moreover the point of catastrophe was 4.46 Sco square AC;
> >the point of death 21.49 Cap conjunct Neptune.
> >
> >There was no doubt that she was dead alas.
> >
> >She was found dead when her lord Saturn went Direct at the 22 th of
> >November !
> >The murder has never been proved...
> >
> >BTW I have many more of these.
> >
> >I would very much appreciate to hear from fellow menbers of their
> >experience with horary questions, the answer of which came on the exact
> >date that had been predicted.
> >
> >Bye !
> >
> >Paul Langeveld
> >
> >
> >



Thread: Time Conversions
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:34:58 -0700

I happened to come across a site tha might prove helpful. It
calculates and converts time zones/changes for specific locations around the
world and at present
works for dates back to 1970. It says they will be adding more time
changes, when they have time. (no pun intended)

http://poisson.ecse.rpi.edu/cgi-bin/tzconvert
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: House purchase question
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:40:25 -0700

At 08:45 PM 4/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Good advice re house purchase dates. Interestingly, the mortgate company is
>pressuring me to close on April 30, but I've delayed it until May 9, without
>telling them about Mercury retrograde. Mercury is direct on May 9, though
>some astrologers subscribe to the theory that it's still "in shadow" until it
>reaches the degree it was in when it first went retrograde. I'm trying to get
>the closing date time to be when nothing malefic is in the 8th and 2nd, and
>no malefics are conjunct the angles--with one exception. Pluto will likely
>fall in the 4th house in the closing chart, but that's probably a good sign
>since my natal chart has Pluto in the 4th and whatever energies manifest, at
>least I'm familiar with them. - Lauren McKevitt
>
>
I hope you can do something about the date. The hour thing is very
iffy. In my case it was for a 9AM closing, but the lawyer had to be in
court, then the bank couldn't make it at 1 PM and yad-dah...yadhah.
I know someone who recently signed a P&S to sell their house during
a retrograde Mercury and come closing they found that the bank hadn't done
the paperwork for discharging the mortgage. That is typical Mercury
retrograde. Mercury retrograde is a pain in the ass, Mars retrograde will
put pain on your ass.
Retrograde Mars really scares me. Everytime I do start something new
under a retrograde Mars, no matter how trivial it is, I find I pay dearly.
I don't want to be pessimistic and put bad vibes on somebody, but
you can't know what a hell I went through with that house. If you had lived
through it, you would feel the Mars influence. Add to the fact that the
other party got just was just as screwed as I did, I can't come to any other
conclusion. (The other party, being his closing was maybe 45 minutes or
more later, wouldn't have had the same configuration and he did not have the
VOC Moon, which lessened the financial loss for me, allowing me to recover.)
As for there being a "shadow", I never heard that one. All I ever
heard was that there was an added strength during stationary periods, good
or bad depending on the way it was turning. I have personally found nothing
to indicate anything except seeing bottlenecks clear up when planets go direct.
If the "shadow" theory held water and you thought about it in terms
of Neptune or Pluto, then the retrograde and "shadow" periods would last for
9 or 10 months a year.

_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Illness chart
From: Czarnik Dorothy <C-Dorothy1@neiu.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:30:14 -0700

John,

Sorry. I had current positions in my head. I'm at work now, but have
printed the chart and will look at it tonite, and reply tomorrow, Sat.
Dorothy



Thread: Illness chart
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:23:43 -0700

Dorothy

I think you miscalculated. Neptune is at 26 Capricorn and not 29 and the
sixth is Sag. Here is the correct data:


Polly's Diabetes
Table of Planets and Houses
Planet Position Planet Position Planet Position Planet
Position


Sun 20Sag11 Mars 21Vir28 Neptune 26Cap08 MNNode
04Lib07
Moon 06Cap58 Jupiter 20Cap39 Pluto 03Sag39 MSNode
04Ari07
Mercury 10Cap03 Saturn 00Ari40 Ascendant 11Can35 P_Fortune
28Can22
Venus 23Sco25 Uranus 02Aqu14 Midheaven 19Pis22



House Position House Position House Position House
Position


First 11Can35 Fourth 19Vir22 Seventh 11Cap35 Tenth
19Pis22
Second 00Leo45 Fifth 25Lib00 Eighth 00Aqu45 Eleventh
25Ari00
Third 22Leo13 Sixth 05Sag47 Ninth 22Aqu13




At 09:39 AM 4/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>John, both charts are valid. However, the 6th to ascendant will refine
>the results and give you more information since the 9th will be the end-
>of-the-matter-4th for the cat. If Pisces is on that cusp, neptune rules
>and is in capricorn. When the chart's moon conjuncts neptune, it should
>straighten itself out. Neptune is at 29 of Capricorn, so it may take a
>while. Also, saturn/capricorn influences are strong, ergo longer still.
>Jupiter ruling the 6th seems to have been too much of a good thing.
>However, it's also protection. Without knowing the time and seeing the
>entire chart, from what I do see, it looks pretty positive. Hope all
>goes well.
>Dorothy
>
>On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, John Reder wrote:
>
>> I have an illness chart that I think I may be too close to, to get a
>> good handle on.
>> December 11, 1996
>> 5:40 PM EST
>> Plymouth, MA
>> (70W04 41N56)
>>
>> First off, is it an illness chart or is it a horary chart. It is
>> for a cat of mine that due to steroid treatments for a misdiagnosed
>> condition developed diabetes.
>> I cast the chart right after I got the diagnosis from the vet over
>> the phone. So I don't know if I should turn the chart to the sixth house
>> for the pet, or consider it an illness chart and use the Asc as the cats
>> ruler. (Seeing as it is Cancer rising with the Moon in Capricorn, that
>> would indicate a skeletal frame and the main symptom was weight loss.
>> There is the classic Venus/Jupiter diabetes indicator, with Jupiter
>> ruling the sixth, which could be the illness 6th or the pet sixth and still
>> look valid.
>> From what I gather, feline diabetes brought on by steroids is common
>> and it is and either or situation. Either the insulin works and over a
>> couple of years the condition goes away, or the cat's system rejects the
>> insulin over time. It's 50-50.
>> The main problem is that the drug companies used to produce an
>> animal DNA insulin, but have stopped and only make insulin that is for human
>> dna.
>> Any ideas how to read this?
>> _\|/_
>> (o o)
>> -----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
>> John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)
>>
>>
>
>
>
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: House - closing deal
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:40:03 -0700

At 12:59 PM 4/11/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Dear John,
>
>Just to be sure I have the right angles (!) on this chart, I have 6 29
>Cancer rising for the data you have given with 13 12 Pisces on the
>Midheaven. You know you have the Moon conjunct Scheat in that chart. That
>would just about finish everuthing off, particularly as it is chart ruler.
>Scheat, second only to Caput Algol in my opinion (and experience, albeit
>limited), is the worst fixed star you can have an important significator
>conjunct. It was prominent in the chart for the launching of the Titanic
>and look what happened to her!! You also have Mercury retrograde and
>combust (ruler of 4th). Now, you are going to tell me that you weren't
>trained in horary at the time of this deal, aren't you .....
>
>Kind regards,
>
>
>Pat.
>
>
>

My training in horary didn't matter. I had no control over the time
of the closing. The banks, the realtors and the lawyers set the time for
their convenience, not the parties. In fact on that day, the appointment
time was changed 3 times. (Would I choose to close on Christmas Eve.)
As for the fixed stars, when the other party closed on his house,
the time was moved on enough so that they wouldn't have applied, but he got
nailed too.
With mercury and Mars retrograde, that is exactly what we are
talking about here. If this closing is in the next 2 weeks that will give
the same conditions.
The only benefit I see in my chart was with the Moon VOC, nothing
would come of the whole disaster, supposedly. I did escape financial ruin,
in that I happened to connect with a deal for another house. I got a copy
of a distressed property list and bought a house the bank had just
foreclosed on, before it went to auction and I got it $35,000 below
assessed value. So I did make up for a lot of the loss on the original house.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Illness chart
From: Czarnik Dorothy <C-Dorothy1@neiu.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:39:59 -0700

John, both charts are valid. However, the 6th to ascendant will refine
the results and give you more information since the 9th will be the end-
of-the-matter-4th for the cat. If Pisces is on that cusp, neptune rules
and is in capricorn. When the chart's moon conjuncts neptune, it should
straighten itself out. Neptune is at 29 of Capricorn, so it may take a
while. Also, saturn/capricorn influences are strong, ergo longer still.
Jupiter ruling the 6th seems to have been too much of a good thing.
However, it's also protection. Without knowing the time and seeing the
entire chart, from what I do see, it looks pretty positive. Hope all
goes well.
Dorothy

On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, John Reder wrote:

> I have an illness chart that I think I may be too close to, to get a
> good handle on.
> December 11, 1996
> 5:40 PM EST
> Plymouth, MA
> (70W04 41N56)
>
> First off, is it an illness chart or is it a horary chart. It is
> for a cat of mine that due to steroid treatments for a misdiagnosed
> condition developed diabetes.
> I cast the chart right after I got the diagnosis from the vet over
> the phone. So I don't know if I should turn the chart to the sixth house
> for the pet, or consider it an illness chart and use the Asc as the cats
> ruler. (Seeing as it is Cancer rising with the Moon in Capricorn, that
> would indicate a skeletal frame and the main symptom was weight loss.
> There is the classic Venus/Jupiter diabetes indicator, with Jupiter
> ruling the sixth, which could be the illness 6th or the pet sixth and still
> look valid.
> From what I gather, feline diabetes brought on by steroids is common
> and it is and either or situation. Either the insulin works and over a
> couple of years the condition goes away, or the cat's system rejects the
> insulin over time. It's 50-50.
> The main problem is that the drug companies used to produce an
> animal DNA insulin, but have stopped and only make insulin that is for human
> dna.
> Any ideas how to read this?
> _\|/_
> (o o)
> -----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
> John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)
>
>



Thread: Will I get my money back?
From: "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.hcc.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:19:43 -0700

Congratulations !
I must admit that I was completey wrong and this case makes me
think differently about the use of post Saturnal planets .
If you take like me Neptune for the other party then the outcome
is quite different !
Than I thought why is it that te money has come back before the 29 th
when Mars is going Direct again, but it is the other way round:
it had to come back in the period of Mars Retro !
After the 29 th you would not have had the money returned.
And so we learn everyday!
Buy something nice with the returned money.

Bye !

Paul

j metz wrote:
>
> I got my money back!!! Full refund-I don't have Virgo rising but maybe
> that Mars retro did have significance being their money in my lst and
> with it being retro, going back to the way it was, in my hands not
> theirs. Thanks all of you! Janis




Thread: Will I get my money back?
From: harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 03:14:02 -0700

Dear Janis,

WOW! Great news. You have cheered up my week. Sorry for being so
pessimistic about only getting some of it back - I must go back to Lilly
and have a look at his writings in the light of your successful conclusion.
Wonderful!

Love,

Pat.




Thread: House Purchase Question
From: John Reder <xjreder@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:52:23 -0700

At 04:05 PM 4/10/97 +0100, you wrote:
>John,
>
>What did Mars retro. rule in your chart for the deal?
>
>Pat.
>
>
>
> Here's the data.
house closing
24 Dec 1990 TZ = 5.0 4.30 P.M. 41.43 NORTH 71.08 WEST

For it being retrograde in Taurus conjunct the 12th of imprisonment,
I see it covering every disaster, (I definitely ended up feeling
trapped.)
I had a bills for every type of repair you can imagine. The
breaking point was that I paid big money to get an acre and a half of
cleanly wooded land with nice landscaping. Hurricane Bob came through
and took out 22 trees and left the land looking like a barren field.
(estimate to re-landscaped was over $10,000, and that was only to replace
it with saplings that would take 20 years to grow back to where it was.
None of the damage was covered by insurance, since none of the trees hit
a structure)
(I don't know what the policy is here, but I could post before
and after pictures of the property that would show it.)
At to that a burglary, a car going out of control on the street
and tearing up the front lawn, etc.
All I can say is I paid $133,900 for the house, I put in
at least $30,000 in repairs over 3 years and sold it for $121,000 and
felt lucky to just to be out of it.
As I said, the guy who sold me the house had agreed to a time for
closing after Mars went direct, (I didn't tell him that was why I wanted
to wait) but he pushed and pushed, until I gave in.
He closed on his new house right after this deal, (figure a half
hour). He didn't pay for a home inspection and every time it rained his
basement flood with sewage, his wiring started a fire that took out the
kitchen, a tree landed on his car during Bob, etc....etc.... (Both houses
were in Swansea, Mass and you can check that Bob came right up
Narragansett Bay and the eye passed right over us. That's Expert
Marksmanship.)
You could say that the VOC Moon, meant that nothing would come of
what I planned for the house, but I would have expected a lot less major
activity from a VOCM. From where I was seeing it, this had Mars attack,
written all over it.
Again, if it is permissible I'll dig out the pictures of the yard
before and after and post them.




--
******When replying by email, remove mass******
******mail blocking X from return address******

John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)


Thread: Illness chart
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:18:35 -0700

I have an illness chart that I think I may be too close to, to get a
good handle on.
December 11, 1996
5:40 PM EST
Plymouth, MA
(70W04 41N56)

First off, is it an illness chart or is it a horary chart. It is
for a cat of mine that due to steroid treatments for a misdiagnosed
condition developed diabetes.
I cast the chart right after I got the diagnosis from the vet over
the phone. So I don't know if I should turn the chart to the sixth house
for the pet, or consider it an illness chart and use the Asc as the cats
ruler. (Seeing as it is Cancer rising with the Moon in Capricorn, that
would indicate a skeletal frame and the main symptom was weight loss.
There is the classic Venus/Jupiter diabetes indicator, with Jupiter
ruling the sixth, which could be the illness 6th or the pet sixth and still
look valid.
From what I gather, feline diabetes brought on by steroids is common
and it is and either or situation. Either the insulin works and over a
couple of years the condition goes away, or the cat's system rejects the
insulin over time. It's 50-50.
The main problem is that the drug companies used to produce an
animal DNA insulin, but have stopped and only make insulin that is for human
dna.
Any ideas how to read this?
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Patrick McNeil
From: harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:20:14 -0700

Tony,

When I read the initial e-mail about the missing Fordham student, I asked a
question "Where is Patrick McNeil?" 3.3.1997 10 15 27 am. gmt Twyford,
England 51n04 1w19 and put my analysis, following Lilly's rules, on the
list. I was not happy about Patrick McNeil's future safety but hoped the
matter would turn out well eventually.

Following Lilly's methods for interpretation, with Mercury virtually in the
11th, he says that when he sees this configuration although he has heard
many reports that the missing person is dead he has been found to live.....
However, in my question chart, Patrick McNeil's significator, Mercury was
combust and approaching conjunction of the Sun which rules the end of the
matter (and the grave)and the significator, itself, is in detriment so
perhaps this was more of an indication that he was actually dead or going to
his death at the time of question. Do you know when time of death was
established in relation to his disappearance? Mercury was leaving Venus
(ruler of 6th and intercepted 12th) of which Lilly writes that the missing
person has been "lately sick" (ruler 6th).

I also took notice of one of Lilly's methods of timing which not seem to
work in this instance where Patrick's significator Mercury came to a sextile
of Jupiter, ruler of the 11th on the 22nd march so news should have been
eard of him then. This does not appear to have been the case as I heard of
the discovery of his body when you e-mailed the list on 8th April, less than
five weeks after I asked my question. The Moon is about four and a quarter
degrees from changing signs so this particular method seems to fit here
although I would like to rationally identify why one method works in some
cases and other methods in others.

If we take the Moon in the question to represent the direction in which he
may have gone then she indicates, being Sagittarius, east by south. Lilly
describes the location of someone whose significator is in Pisces as being
in a watery place: watermills, rivers, fishponds or springs where birds
gather. The river option certainly fits.

In summary, I was troubled by Fortuna conjunct Scheat and by Patrick's
significator in combustion with and approaching conjunction of the Sun, end
of the matter, although the Moon changed signs before the conjunctiion was
perfected. But I wondered if he might be all right in the end because of
Lilly's observation of the significator being in the 11th house and the Moon
being void in Sagittarius - one of the signs where being void of course
gives some hope.

In my question, I had not allowed for the fact that Venus perfected a square
to Pluto before the Moon left Sagittariuis (Venus rules 6th and Pluto in 6th
and Venus combust). In following Lilly's rules exclusively one would have
to ignore the outer planets. However, if we do consider this aspect, this
seems to suggest something destructive regarding a sixth house matter which
could be his health but the girlfriend might also have been signified by
Venus and, if so, tied in with Pluto symbolism in some way. The 6th is also
the house of employment and service. Do you have any thoughts on this?


Pat.



Thread: Will I get my money back?
From: j metz <jmetz@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:04:00 -0700

I got my money back!!! Full refund-I don't have Virgo rising but maybe
that Mars retro did have significance being their money in my lst and
with it being retro, going back to the way it was, in my hands not
theirs. Thanks all of you! Janis




Thread: Will I get my money back?
From: harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:08:14 -0700
Status: U

I also got 18 06 in virgo for the Ascendant of your question chart which I
note John Reder has said is correct.

If you have Christian Astrology by William Lilly look at pp355 to 357 where
he is actually dealing with recovery of stolen goods but the houses are the
same for your contract question - i.e. 1/7 and 2/8 and condition of rulers
etc. In the case of your question, Mars appears to be singularly important,
here, and its condition indicates only a partial return - a small one, at
that - and that it will take some time to get it back.

Anyway, have a look at these pages in Lilly, if you can, and see what you
think....

If you think that Virgo rising describes you well (perhaps you have Virgo
rising natally?) then the chart could be viewed as being radical.
Lilly and Ivy Goldstein-Jacobsen (Simplified Horary Astrology) give good
descriptions according to signs and planets - and are sometimes extremely
amusing in the process!

All the best,


Pat.



Thread: House purchase
From: harris@interalpha.co.uk (harris) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:05:53 -0700
Status: U

John,

What did Mars retro. rule in your chart for the deal?

Pat.



Thread: Will I get my money back
From: j metz <jmetz@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 06:22:17 -0700
Status: U

I got the ruler of the hour as either Jupiter or Mars as it was in the
middle so I went with Mars making the chart radical. Lets hope it isn't
radical and can't be read because I don't want to be out $500. This was
a decorating contract whereby I did hastily enter into it, not reading
all the terms carefully and when i did realized it was going to cost me
much more than I wanted to spend on this service. Thanks for looking at
it, and I'll let you know the outcome. Janis



Thread: Will I get my money back
From: "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.hcc.nl> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:27:42 -0700
Status: U

j metz wrote:
>
> Paul -The chart I got had 8 Virgo rising not 18 so please check again as
> I don't like the answer I got either!!! Thanks Janis


Janis - I don't understand how that is possible and John Reder agreed with me.
The comic thing for me was Saturn in the 7 th as I wrote to you before and I
was waiting for the mistake I might have made.
With the new chart Saturn has moved to the 8 th and maybe therefore this is
the right chart but I should like to hear what is the truth.

BTW, I am 80 years old and it is difficult for me with all those different
times in the world.
Therefore for people like me it would be nice if everybody with a question would
also give the AC and MC so that we could check whether we are right otherwise
it is possible that we do a lot of unnessary work.

Most astrology programs also have already very many coordinates of towns and
when you don't know the town it is difficult to insert the coordinates.
Excuse me for bringing this up, but maybe there are many more like me who
would appreciate same.

But to return to the chart IMHO you 'll not get your money back.
Mars Retro - Venus burned - and the last aspect of the Moon that is killing and
the end of the matter Mercury making an ingoing square with Jupiter, lord of
the fourth.
As for me it is impossible.
But always in the market to learn I hope to hear from you.

Bye!

Paul.



Thread: News items
From: "Angela Reeve UK(UTC +01:00)" <angy@e-mail.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:10:18 -0700
Status: U

Nothing to do with the heading at all, just need to use the 'return' facility.
I did send this thru before, so apols if anyone receives a repeat posting,
however, in case it was a victim of rogue computerism I'm resending.

A question that has often perplexed me in the past and I would be most grateful
for any insight - Mercury is seen as being quite 'amorphous' in terms of
taking on the flavour of whichever planet it is associating with, somewhat like
blotting paper. This being the case, when it comes to judging whether or not
a chart is radical with regard to the Lord of the Hour concurring with the Lord
of the Ascendant, if Mercury is one or other of said Lords, does this
mutability mean that Mercury will concur with whatever the partnering planet
is, because of his adaptability?

Interested
Angela



Thread: Will I get my money back
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:39:02 -0700
Status: U

At 12:58 PM 4/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Paul -The chart I got had 8 Virgo rising not 18 so please check again as
>I don't like the answer I got either!!! Thanks Janis
>
>
>
>
>
Janis:
From the info you gave, Paul's calculations are correct. I got the
same thing, though my interpretation is different. I read that you were not
as hasty going in to the contract as geting out of it. Mars retrograde on
the Asc. tends to being forced to go through with the matter in question.
With your ruler about to turn retrograde you will change your attitude about
the situation.


Janis' contract
07 Apr 1997 TZ = 7.0 4.50 P.M. 33.45 NORTH 117.53 WEST

Moon day Jupiter hour

STRICTURES and WARNINGS -
SATURN is in the 7th house.

Planet Sign Exlt. Trip. Term Face Speed Rate
------ ---- ----- ----- ---- ---- ----- ----
SUN MARS SUN SUN MERCURY SUN SLOW 0d
59m
MOON MARS SUN SUN MARS VENUS FAST 14d
24m
MERCURY VENUS MOON VENUS VENUS MERCURY SLOW 0d
42m
VENUS MARS SUN SUN MERCURY SUN FAST 1d
14m
MARS MERCURY MERCURY VENUS SATURN VENUS SLOW R 0d
15m
JUPITER SATURN --- SATURN VENUS MERCURY FAST 0d
10m
SATURN MARS SUN SUN VENUS SUN FAST 0d
07m
PART F. MERCURY MERCURY VENUS MARS MERCURY Strength = 8

Peregrine - VENUS MARS JUPITER SATURN MOON
Detriment - VENUS
Fall - SATURN

Combust - VENUS SATURN MOON
Fixed Stars - MERCURY - Hamal MERCURY - Schedir

Planets' Strengths:
SUN: 4 MERCURY: 8 VENUS: -9 MARS: -2 JUPITER: 6 SATURN: -8 MOON: -8


27 VIR 55 MEAN NORTH NODE 28 VIR 40
TRUE NORTH NODE

26 AQU 05 P of ILLNESS 07 VIR 09 P/DEATH-trad. 16 LEO 36 P of
MARRIAGE
11 VIR 11 P of FATALITY 13 CAN 30 Point of DEATH 10 VIR 51 P.F.
- night

Moon's Aspects -
From - TRINE PLUTO SEXTILE URANUS CONJUNCT SATURN SEXTILE JUPITER
CONJUNCT SUN CONJUNCT VENUS
To - SQUARE NEPTUNE

Moon's Aspects Within Orb
-------------------------
MOON Conjunct sep VENUS 5.9 degree
MOON Conjunct sep SUN 7.3 degree
MOON Sextile sep, dex JUPITER 9.2 degree
MOON Square APP, dex NEPTUNE 4.4 degree


Moon's declination = 07 N 38 Moon's declination next day = 11 N 28


In Critical Degrees: URANUS MOON


00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29
PL ME UR SA JU AS MA
PF NN NE
5 7 8 11 16 18 19
25 27 29

SA TA AQ AR AQ VI VI
VI VI CP
18 0 10 16 14 6 15
21 55 48
R R

SU VE
MO
18 19
25
AR AR
AR
12 36
27





_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: House purchase question
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:39:04 -0700
Status: U

At 07:30 PM 4/9/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I don't have much experience with electional astrology, and am getting ready
>to close on a house I'm buying. I may not have much flexibility on the date
>and the time. My questions:
>1. Do you count the chart for the house purchase to be the day of the
>purchase agreement (which was last Dec.); the day of the closing (which looks
>like it will be sometime this month) or the day that you physically move into
>the house (likely to be in May)?
>2. How much weight would be given a retrograde Mercury in any of the charts?
> I don't like to begin anything under a retrograde Mercury, but I may be too
>simplistic about this.
>
>I would appreciate anybody's thoughts on this. - Lauren McKevitt
>
>
>
>

From a point of personal experience, NEVER!!! NEVER!!! NEVER!!!
close under a retrograde Mars!!!! If you signed the purchase agreement
while it was retrograde...RUN...don't walk away! But, for the closing...FLY
AWAY!
I had a deal to close after a retrograde Mars went direct and the
seller forced the deal forward and I got screwed!!! The inspectors report
was a piece of garbage and as soon as I moved it, the place literally
started falling apart. It took over half again the purchase price to "SAVE"
the place and I ened up having to sell at a major loss, just to get rid of
it, because I couldn't take it anymore.
The only small bit of satisfaction I got was that the seller ended
up buying a house that was a bigger lemon than the one he sold.
But, in general, a retrograde Mercury will screw up the paperwork,
but a retrograde Mars will do you in BIG. If placed really badly in the
chart for the the closing, you could be talking fire after you move in!
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: House purchase question
From: LMcKevitt@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 16:31:50 -0700

I don't have much experience with electional astrology, and am getting ready
to close on a house I'm buying. I may not have much flexibility on the date
and the time. My questions:
1. Do you count the chart for the house purchase to be the day of the
purchase agreement (which was last Dec.); the day of the closing (which looks
like it will be sometime this month) or the day that you physically move into
the house (likely to be in May)?
2. How much weight would be given a retrograde Mercury in any of the charts?
I don't like to begin anything under a retrograde Mercury, but I may be too
simplistic about this.

I would appreciate anybody's thoughts on this. - Lauren McKevitt



Thread: Will I get money back?
From: John Reder <jreder@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 15:21:26 -0700
Status: O
X-Status:

At 08:55 AM 4/8/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a chart for April 7 1997 4:50 pm PDT 33n45 117w53. The situation
>is this: I entered into a contract hastily and changed my mind. I gave a
>deposit and want to know if I will get it back. When i called the other
>party to tell them I changed my mind, I told them to send me my money
>back and they said okay. The chart indicates Venus being my money
>and the moon squaring Neptune which doesn't look good. I can't find
>anything that indicates I will get my money back. Can you? Thanks Janis
>
>
>
>

Your ruler Mercury about to go retrograde and back into Aries shows
the desire to turn back and start over, but with Mars retrograde on the
Ascendent, you may be in a "forced" situation, where you really have to take
care of the matter contracted over. Of course, by then your ruler will be
retrograde and there may again be a change of mind, (or terms of the contract).
Your money ruler Venus is combust, but separating, so the money may
be out of sight but coming into view again. With Venus quincunx the
ascendent and Mars there may a continuation of the matter originally
contracted over.
Are you sure you want to fully terminate the contract, or merely
renegotiate it. You may still need or want the matter taken care of and not
dismissed. I would tend more to that than actually terminating the whole
deal. I don't know what the contract was over, but the chart would tend to
indicate the matter still needs to be dealt with. It seems the contract
itself (Jupiter sextile Saturn), was in your better interest.
_\|/_
(o o)
-----------o00-(_)-00o-------------
John Reder (jreder@tiac.net)



Thread: Will I get my money back
From: j metz <jmetz@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:13:38 -0700
Status: O
X-Status:

I was hoping that their money, my 8th being in my lst was one thing I
had going for me and being retro that it would return to the previous
state! Janis




Thread: Will I get my money back
From: j metz <jmetz@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:13:35 -0700
Status: O
X-Status:

Paul -The chart I got had 8 Virgo rising not 18 so please check again as
I don't like the answer I got either!!! Thanks Janis




Thread: My original letter of the 5 thof April about Columbia that did not arrive helas.
From: "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.hcc.nl> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:57:31 -0700

Subject:
Columbia 83
Date:
Sat, 05 Apr 1997 15:32:30 +0100
From:
"P. Langeveld" <langeveld.p@net.hcc.nl>
To:
"sueward@easynet.co.uk" <sueward@easynet.co.uk>
CC:
Members <william_lilly@halcyon.com>

This letter has been sent by me in the wrong way as it appeared later
when I asked Sue why there was no reaction on this remarkable chart.
I am glad that I sent it also to Prof.Dr.W.de Graaff in Utrecht and
to Astronet in Holland, so I can prove that I could not know what
happened later.


Hallo All,

Some of you maybe remember my wrong interpretation of the opposition
of Mars/Saturn in the horary of the moment of launching the Discovery 82
on the 11th of Feb. 1997 in the houses 3 and 9, by which I thought that
this could not go right.
These planets were both weak by sign however and Mercury, the lord of
the 9 th in good aspect with Jupiter made the launch succesfull.

With this lesson in mind I looked at the chart of the launching of the
Columbia 83 that would take place on 03/04/1997 at 14.01 EST (19.01 GMT)
at Cape Kennedy (080W37 and 28N37) AC 13.44 Leo, MC 9.10 Taurus.

Here it was the reverse, i.e. the Sun, lord of the first house, together
with Venus and Saturnus in 9, well aspected by Jupiter gave the impression
that everything would turn out right, but, because the lord of the 9 th and
the 4 th, Mars, standing Retro in the 2 and Mercury in the 9 th square
Uranus in 6, I thought that postponement could be expected.

And, as all of you know, there was first a 24 hour delay and the new chart
beiing practically the same, except the Moon now in Pisces, which in human
relations is OK, but in connection with exact sciences no improvement, I
again did not exclude that there could be an other delay, which in this case
indeed was 20 minutes !

So far so good, but how 'll it go further on ?
I wonder if the end of the voyage will be attained because the lord of
the 10 th house (the object): Venus, is in the same degree of the Sun and
totally burned in the 9 th;
Mars, lord of the 9 th Retro in the 2 gives IMHO an indication that the
nesserary material of the shuttle is not up to date.
As it has been announced that many trials will be made in making fires, Mars
(fire) being Retro might indicate that is a shortage of matches.

Finally Mercury square Uranus could cause a bad communication or difficulties
with blood-pressure of (one of) the astronauts. (Mercury beiing lord of the
6 th of the 6th house)

Appreciate to hear your views !

Paul Langeveld

P.S. The bad communication aspect could also turn out to be the fact that
information about happenings on board c.q. results (not) obtained, will
not be rendered by the government.


Thread: Will I get money back?
From: "P. Langeveld" <Langeveld.P@net.hcc.nl> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:09:31 -0700

I hope I made the chart right, adding 7 hours for GMT and got the AC
of 18.06 Virgo.
In that case I am sorry to say that IMO you won't get your money back
because :Mars Retro and square MC;
Venus, lord of the second house in the 2 nd of the other party in
detriment and burned; Maybe the have 'nt any money to pay you back.
Mercury square Uranus;
Last Moon's aspect out of the money-house of the other party
square Neptune and opp. Cheiron in your 2nd house.
With Saturn in the 7 th I have to take double care and maybe I did not
make the chart well, but if it ' s all right you 'll not see your money back.

I'll appreciate to hear from you.
Bye !

Paul.

metz wrote:
>
> I have a chart for April 7 1997 4:50 pm PDT 33n45 117w53. The situation
> is this: I entered into a contract hastily and changed my mind. I gave a
> deposit and want to know if I will get it back. When i called the other
> party to tell them I changed my mind, I told them to send me my money
> back and they said okay. The chart indicates Venus being my money
> and the moon squaring Neptune which doesn't look good. I can't find
> anything that indicates I will get my money back. Can you? Thanks Janis



Thread: Will I get money back?
From: treelife@easynet.co.uk (Jonathon Clark/Maggy Whitehouse) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 02:36:34 -0700

>Dear Janis,

I may have missed something but I don't think this chart is radical - no
agreement between hour ruler and ascendant ruler by rulership,